These will be difficult years, maybe everything will settle down again... AI makes it possible...

AI is omnipresent
In fact, AI is omnipresent: whether in the form of a spherical, two-wheeled household assistant called "AI Home Hub", which rolls around the exhibition stand of the Korean electronics company LG as a mixture of an electronic lapdog and a servile voice assistant and dims the lights when spoken to or invents and tells fairy tales.

Whether as "AI Taste Assistant": an app that makes individualized recipe suggestions to users of networked Samsung refrigerators based on the food stored in them and personal fitness needs. Or in new hearing aids from the manufacturer Phonak, in which AI algorithms trained with millions of sound patterns distill human speech from the sound mush of ambient noise more clearly than ever.

Lunar Lake, a beacon of hope
It is the name of the latest high-performance chip, specially optimized for AI applications in PCs, which the ailing US chip company officially presented shortly before the official start of the trade fair in a launch event streamed worldwide from Berlin. "Lunar Lake", the previous code name of the new chip generation, is Intel's great beacon of hope. With it, the company wants to catch up with its competitors AMD and Qualcomm, who had recently outpaced the long-standing industry dominator in the segment in terms of performance or energy efficiency.

With the new chips, Intel wants to regain technological leadership - especially in the future segment of AI computers. And the IFA in Berlin is supposed to be the starting signal for this. And perhaps also a sign of hope for the company, which is suffering from heavy losses and whose plans for the billion-dollar construction of a huge chip factory near Magdeburg are currently at least shaky.

 

I just heard that Intel is looking to buy Boeing. Industry forecasters are cawing on about a future crash of the merged companies if the deal goes through...and a crash nonetheless if it doesn't.

 

Hmmmm. Intel's at ~23 dlrs atm. For comparison, AMD's stock atm is at ~141 dlrs. This got me intrigued so i took a quick look as back as 2016 and Intel's never been over ~68 dlrs. Their average for the past 8 years minus this one, should be around 50-55 dlrs.
So, short answer would be yes. But i have to warn for the worst. My brain says it's impossible to not bounce back as they are too important to the US economy and technology in general, army too. But it might take a while. I am not an insider in US economy, i know only very few things. But i know that things have only just started and all the bad that's happened and still does to some extent, has not actually landed on their heads, yet! Meaning the shit hasn't hit the fan yet. High ranking Intel will keep cutting expenses with every way possible in order to maintain their fat salaries. But my thought is, exactly how many of them think about saving the company instead of their own asses?
Whatever happens, Gelsinger should 've stepped down but looks like he won't unless he's fired from the position. He fkd up and his looking down on TSMC, cost all Intel a great deal of money. He's not helping anyone from that position anyway. He should be where his expertise can be of help and leave CEO to a person who can see clearly, possesses critical judgement and can make positive decisions for the company.
I 'll stfu now, i'm thinking out loud.
Laters man

 

could also be they divide/share the company group...

whats the most sold in brics states ,amd or intel ? do you know this ? , μάστορας .

 

But you have to do the math yourself...

AMD = www.tradingview.com/symbols/NASDAQ-AMD/financials-revenue/
INTEL = www.tradingview.com/symbols/NASDAQ-INTC/financials-revenue/

 

I forgot you wrote this as well. I couldn't agree more. I also wanted to say that i liked a lot their 8gb A580 gpu. It hits all the right marks in the ~150 euro segment and it has no actual competitor there either. RX 6500 comes short and even the RX6600 trades blows with the A580 in most games. The A750/770 are a bit hit and miss because ie the A750 consumes 30% more power than the A580 but is only 10% faster in gaming and more expensive. But still these are sort of good products too.
It has become obvious to me that Intel can make potent GPUs. Even if they 're not for the high paying gamers, most gamers are on tight and medium budgets anyway. So i find this from Gelsinger very wrong once again. It's lack of clear thought and misjudgement.
Following AMD's announcement that they will make no high end GPUs for the near future, looks like Gelsinger is afraid(?) to compete with AMD in the mid, mid/low and low segments of the gpu market. Which -as AMD stated- is where the real profit is actually. Bailing out of this market segment is stupid imho because Intel invested too much to be in it, just a few years ago. If they indeed stop bringing out more discrete gpus they will lose big because they will leave everything that is not mid high and high end GPU market segments to AMD. I can picture Lisa Su laughing her butt off.
Let's just look at the other end. Nvidia only makes expensive gpus and their cheap ones are lame and just an excuse if you ask me.
At around 280-300 euros you cannot call an RTX 4060 cheap. Where are the ~180-200dlr 1050TI equivalents of current gens? Nowhere. Because Nvidia has been selling high end datacenter and AI gpus by the thousands! They are well on their way to become TSMC's best customer surpassing Apple and AMD and Qualcomm with gpus that cost thousands each one for fuck's sake. And guys like Zuckenberg and Musk order them by a margin of tens of thousands! Reminds me of when Mariah Carrey sung live in some Arabian prince's birthday party (excuse my ignorance of titles) for the petty amount of 10 mil dlrs hahaha. Tssk tsskk tsskk , we need
But i digress, thing is Nvidia is not for the poor gamer. They no longer position themselves as a gaming gpu company anyway, by mouth of CEO Jensen himself. The mid segment gpu market has AMD as probably the wisest choice from price/performance ratio perspective. So does for the mid-low and low parts, and these 3 market segments is were Intel can fit in perfectly. But Gelsinger says meeehhh. Fk off already.
Ffff i 'll stop the rant now.
Cheers mate

 

Last edited: Nov 5, 2024

Yeah, I think the Intel GPUs are pretty good now with the many driver updates. Had they launched with the current drivers, they'd have sold like hotcakes. In late 2024, I'd be perfectly happy with the A580 for AAA games in medium-high 1080p.

I think we're not far off from x64 iGPUs getting to a point where they can reach A580 levels of performance though. The 890M comes close to a 3050M if allowed ~70w. AMD has a "giant" APU slated for 2025 as well and then there's word on the street that they're also working on an APU with 3D cache for both the iGPU and CPU - could be massive.

And then there's Apple. I think Apple has a really, really good chance of capturing serious gaming market share over time. Because for the last 4-5 years, they've been shipping every single Apple chip with an iGPU that beats AMD/Intel's non-APUs offerings black and blue. Game developers aren't gonna sleep on 120+ million desktops perfectly capable of running AAA-/AA+ games in 1080p forever.

Apple keeps raising the bar for minimum iGPU performance with each generation. There'll always be room for discrete cards, but iGPUs are increasingly eating away at the lower end of discrete cards.

What I'm getting at is that Intel needs a good GPU architecture whether that's for iGPUs or dGPUs. I'm worried the bean counters at Intel might be considering completely pulling the plug on their own GPUs and going the licensed from 3rd party company route. Saves money in the short term, very expensive in the long run, worse for consumers in any case.

 

Intel and Boeing. Like they say it's a "crash crash" situation... oh wait

 

Last edited: Nov 6, 2024

Well, I agree with both of you. Currently good value for money.
But it's possible that Intel loses or barely makes margin manufacturing these GPUs. I mean after the design, again because very weak node fabs.
I don't recall specific data about this

 

Well... All Intel gpus are TSMC made. The upcoming(?) Xe 2 Battlemage is on TSMC's 4 nm node. So they don't make much money out of them. I think of them as having the same narrow margin of profit as their Ultra cpus, only a bit less due to the cost of gpu ram. Intel had enlisted Raja Koduri (and very dubiously too but that's another story) who before leading the team behind Intel's Arc, was chief architect of AMD Radeon and at a time where AMD was doing very good in the mid and lower market with RX280/380/480/580s and their cheaper models. Last year he left Intel too. He did deliver though the ARC series. And yes at first the drivers were a bit crappy but they fixed them eventually. But they should expect a rocky start as normal, their test cpu pcs for gaming where filled with Nvidias and a few Radeons just a couple of years ago haha. Meaning they had little experience in making real gaming gpus. And as xorome pointed out if they were a new release they would sell like hotcakes. Meaning they rushed to release in the gpu market, when it was already flooded with some very good gpus in most price ranges.
Gelsinger is once again wrong, he's thinking of gpus as cpus. Gamers are the most fanatical early adopters. YT is flooded on video comparisons with the new gpus at least a week before they hit the shelves and pre-orders go like crazy on Amazon, Newegg etc etc. And the mid and low segment gpus are the ones who sell the most.
So, it's nothing like the cpu market as gamers change gpus constantly but not cpus. And whoever changes cpu most likely will change gpu anyway too. There is only one thing to consider seriously. Gamers know that there is no chance their new Radeons & Nvidias won't work. Whereas Intel rushed in their first release and people who bought them early were frustrated and so were reviewers too. Inconsistent performance was the main problem due to poorly written drivers. So if they plan to get their drivers straight out of the box, they should stay in the gpu market, there is much room for them imho.

Hmmm. Didn't happen when Apple could game with Nvidia gpus or strictly Radeon recently. The "Intel inside" Apple days, saw anyone who had a Mac dual boot with Windows and gaming the fk away whatever they pleased. In the Apple Silicon days and although the igpus in their high end models can deliver some 130 fps at 1080p or even 1440p for some ultra expensive models, there are no games to begin with. AAA gaming benchmarks are done on Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Total War: 3 Kingdoms which are 6 and 5 year old games respectively.
And it goes both ways because gamers don't fav Macs anyway. To match the gaming performance of a 1500 euros pc, you need a 5000 euros Mac M3 Max. Pointless to say, i am not aware of anyone who would rush to buy a Mac to play Warhammer hehe.
Whatever the case, you very right in that they keep raising the bar with every new gen. Now if they can incorporate decent gpus in their cheap models they might have a shot at AAA titles from game devs. Because atm the cheap models do something like 30-40 fps @ 1080p in AAA games.
Cheers mate.

 

Definitely lots of hopium on my end, but here's a couple more recent Apple Silicon AAA games whose names I at least recognise: Lies of P, GRID Legends, Death Stranding, Resident Evil 2/4/7/Village, Baldur's Gate 3. A couple that aren't out yet: Cyberpunk 2077, Assassin's Creed Shadows, Control, Prince of Persia - The Lost Crown(, Civilization 7).

Still a long way to go, but if Apple can get to a point where working age gamers can just casually browse and grab one AAA game per week off the app store, then that's a huge step up from where we're at now.

On the developer side of things, I think they're in a much better position now, now that they've got a capable graphics API (Metal) and that the driver team has moved in house, cutting out AMD and Nvidia.

There's also Apple's GPTK, which is their Proton-like compatibility layer for Windows games. It shares a fair bit of code with WINE and Steam's Proton. Very early stages, but apparently it can run some new AAA stuff like Black Myth: Wukong.

True, but back then you had to pay premium if you wanted anything better than the Intel iGPU on the baseline consumer models, now you get a workable GPU with every model for "free".

 

Yeah i know quoting meself ain't the most sane thing hehe. But hey, talking about gaming "gear";
The 9800X3D sold out literally overnight. Intel should take a lesson or two. At November 8th 24 hrs after launch, the cpu was out of stock everywhere not only in the US as Steve (Gamers Nexus) reported earlier today, but it's out of stock in Europe and Australia/NZ too. Haven't checked with Asia and Africa but it should be assumed they would follow trend in their own analogies.
So yeah gamers usually change GPUs like underwear but when a new gaming cpu hits the market and it does outperform everything else, a.k.a "more fps please", they all rushed on it. 9950X3D should be next and leaks show it crushes the 7950X3D by a margin of ~50% !? in Factorio (increasingly demanding sandbox management/construction game where you build and maintain factories). Hmmm, sounds too good to be true let's see.
Cheers

 

Obviously fact. But Intel lately does what it can, not what they want. The 7000's 3D were already unreachable so they focused on other tasks. In which BTW the regular Ryzen 9000s have been underwhelming (8% average uplift was t?). Another first at Intel, straight giving out on gaming crown.

It is too good, frankly. The same 98003D doesn't improve more than 15% (on average) and that's including the improved 3D layout that cools better. I bet it's one of those "up to 50% in this one game"
But a 15% over the 78003D which already dominated gaming it is a good outcome. Plus overclocking capability.

I bet all the crazy OClockers out there with their liquid nitrogen coolers are having a boner right now.

 

Oh I just watched that leak. But Factorio is very easy on the GPU. It's actually a game I'm possibly trying in my dinosaur 550TI. Yes, y'all read right. Game looks good

On the other side, the relative improvement over 79503D is indeed impressive. But among all, does it come with 3D cache on all cores?
Because last thing I've heard it doesn't. Meaning only 8 out of 16 cores have 3D cache.

 

I don't game and so have been wearing the same underwear now for coming on 14 months. Maybe I should take up Fortnight or something because it's getting rather itchy down there!

 

3D cache can be eye-poppingly good for AI. In Phoronix' test, 3D cache was up to 60% faster than the same CPU w/o cache. If AMD adds active CUDIMM support (= much faster DDR5 modules) to their CPUs, they'd have an unassailable win in CPU-AI as well... and gamers might have to compete with AI enthusiasts for the same CPUs.

 

The best Intel last gen benchmarks are with DDR5 at 8000Mhz. Didn't know you must implement explicit support.
What's the limit on AMD?

 

(Zen5) DDR5-6000 for one-to-one memory controller to RAM clock. Above 6000, you need to have silicon luck for 1:1. No silicon luck = It'll run your DDR5-7200 sticks, but they'll be as slow as the 6000 sticks, because the memory controller starts running at half the speed.

Zen5 boards accept CUDIMM, but they'll be in passive mode, so just like a regular DIMM.

 

It really depends on what your mobo's dedicated ram vrm can handle with stability. As things have progressed with Zen, EXPO is really OC and not something just on paper that everyone ignores, as it was back in the pre-Ryzen days. So here's my story from today which is absolutely in conjuction with the subject at hand.
I was at my supplier's earlier today (they sell components but also build & sell pcs) and hanging out with their main tech guy down in the basement where their build lab is. Now i know the guy for 10 yrs and we got to be friends over time as i am a frequent client in their components dept and we keep exchanging info and opinions on components and builds, over early afternoon coffee usually.
He was assembling a 9800X3D/RTX4090/Asus X870E Crosshair Hero with a 2x24gb G.Skill Trident Z5 Royal Neo 8000 MT/s kit. This was pre-ordered at November 7 but the Nvidia gpu was a lil late to arrive so he was building it today. I was intrigued by the memory speed, this is not a CUDIMM, just regular DDR5 but one of the most premium oc'd ram you can buy, the 48gb set costs ~320 euros. I was more intrigued when while sipping coffee, i googled the memory kit and found out that it's AMD EXPO certified and in the mobo's QVL. To cut a long story short the memory worked. Passed a 20 mins MemTest. At first with EXPO/auto it just refused to clock correctly but it was expected. With manual settings though it worked just fine. This is a CL 40-48-48-128 memory and because (by its SPD) it's basically a 5600 mt/s kit overclocked, it requires 1.4 volts out of the box. In comparison a 5600mt/s kit is fine with 1.1 volts. Thing is 2 of these sets will not work at 8000mt/s-period. This EXPO oc is only possible when using 2 dimm sticks maximum and mentioned as such also in the QVL. Only thing left now is to wait for the fastest 2x64 kit from G.Skill and see how it performs haha.
Cheers
PS: The memory controller on the 9800X3D is reportedly capable of 8800mt/s (wccftech report on 9800X3D with the same Asus x870E Hero). Weirdly enough, this DDR5 8000 mem kit is only certified for X870 boards and there is no mention for the X670 ones. And it gets even weirder because i got to know the Asus Hero boards really well the past years and i could swear that the VRM on the X670E Hero is identical to the X870E model. They both have 18+2 (110A) + 2(80A) phases... Wtf lol.
EDIT: After a little investigation, it seems that the X870 boards are indeed upgraded to "tolerate" higher clocked memory and will oc better. I still haven't found out what component is responsible for this, as the memory controller doesn't seem to have changed much from Zen 4 to Zen 5. The 1:1 and 1:2 ratios still apply, although what i saw was a 1:1 ratio OC.

 

Last edited: Nov 13, 2024 at 11:28 AM

That's some crazy silicon quality! techpowerup couldn't get the memory controller on their 9950X to stay in 1:1 mode past DDR5-6400.

DDR5-8000 / UCLK 1:2
DDR5-7200 / UCLK 1:2
DDR5-6400 / UCLK 1:1
DDR5-6000 / UCLK 1:1