[Help] Nebula gain staging

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by oshaf, Nov 6, 2024 at 2:25 PM.

  1. WillTheWeirdo

    WillTheWeirdo Audiosexual

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    You need to know the gain level of each stage properly set... so VU's are your friend, Each Nebula plugin needs proper gain heading into it.

    Depends on how much gain is leaving the plugin, make up gain can be whatever you set it to.

    If you can't understand how this works after watching my video, I suggest you do NOT use Nebula. It's advanced IR tech that samples hardware at -18dbfs and you MUST enter each Nebula instance at that gain level or issues arise.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2024 at 9:30 AM
  2. oshaf

    oshaf Noisemaker

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    Will, no. I'm not talking about gain that leaves. I mean the gain in the middle of the processing. If I use an eq that boosts, surely it takes some effect. But what if i make a cut? It's gonna be below -18. Right? Doesn't matter if I try to raise the gain heading to the next instance, the previous one is to no avail.
     
  3. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    Ah, ok, then we agree.
     
  4. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    Do yourself a favour and stop thinking/talking in this number, use 0VU instead. For this calibration a sine wave with -18dBFS peak is used, musical content will have completely different values. Here are some examples, all peak around 0VU (-18)

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Lad Impala

    Lad Impala Rock Star

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    Hey No Avenger! How are you?
    All this talk about VU meters got me confused a little.
    Is there a difference in using a regular trim knob before the plugin or using plugin's own preamp input knob for gain staging?
     
  6. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    Alive and kicking how about you?

    Veeery good question. :guru: In fact it depends. ATME for most pluggies it doesn't matter but for some it really does - but please don't ask me for which, I've made this comparison with so many of them, I can't remember a specific one.
     
  7. macros mk2

    macros mk2 Rock Star

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  8. Lad Impala

    Lad Impala Rock Star

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    Hahaha same here

    Oh ok. Thank you for your answer :like::mates:
     
  9. oshaf

    oshaf Noisemaker

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    My oh my. I thought I know gain staging.
     
  10. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    Nah, it's waaay less difficult than you might think.
    Gain staging means FX out level = FX in level, that's it. No matter if it's hardware or software, which kind of effect or which kind of level.
    Meaning, you can gainstage sample peak, true peak, RMS, VU, LUFS, whatever you want, it's still gain staging.

    The most secure way to apply VU gain staging ITB is to a use leveling pluggie in the first slot and a VU meter as last in chain.
    Without any additional plugin you use the leveling one to adjust the audio signal to 0VU.
    Every additional plugin comes between them so you can set the output of the others again to 0VU. Simple as that.

    There's only one case where you might need to be careful. Short percussive signals can reach +XdBFS when you set them to 0VU.

    And I'd really use TBProAudio VU Meter. It's free, looks like a VU meter, has several GUIs to choose from, provides L/R and M/S and various other levels and you can collapse it to a single meter.
     
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  11. Riddim Machine

    Riddim Machine Audiosexual

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    No Avenger got a mission: make everyone knows that digital VU meters are not calibrated with music BUT with a sine wave. :bleh: We miss you pana, always deliver good knowledge to the masses :bow: hope u doing fine
     
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  12. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    You may find it as surprising as me, but we had pros and self-proclaimed pros here at AS who didn't not know exactly how this calibration was done.

    Miss you too.

    I try my second best. Hope you do fine aswell.
     
  13. Lad Impala

    Lad Impala Rock Star

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    Screenshot.png
     
  14. Lieglein

    Lieglein Audiosexual

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    That's me on the stereo out channel until just before rendering. :hifive:
     
  15. mojohunter

    mojohunter Newbie

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    I use Hornet VU calibrate to 0VU (-18 dbfs) with a Max of -10 dbfs at beginning chain. Then use LetiMix Gain match after each Nebula instance. Save chain to save time. Keep Nebula behave good.
     
  16. shinyzen

    shinyzen Rock Star

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    Great video Will, i learned about hornet VU through the video! I do disagree, that you MUST enter every nebula instance at -18. As a rule of thumb, sure, but there are no hard laws in music, even hardware can be pushed harder on the input. Sometimes it breaks in a nice way.
     
  17. WillTheWeirdo

    WillTheWeirdo Audiosexual

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    The hardware is sampled in Nat at -18dbfs, so while yes you can do what you want, anything over -18dbfs will not give the sampled hardware's proper sound. This tech is not like other VSTs or hardware, it's like a sampled picture at that input level, anything over it is only adding Nebula artifacts, not altering the hardware tone. As always to each their own.
     
  18. WillTheWeirdo

    WillTheWeirdo Audiosexual

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    Best Answer
    Nebula tech is using dynamic IR Voltra Kernals inside Nebula, so as long as you enter every Nebula instance at -18dbfs you are ok as all the internal boosting or cutting is NOT altering your gain staging. So if you boost 5db in a Nebula EQ, then if you chain a second Nebula instance you must gain stage into it at -18dbfs.
     
  19. oshaf

    oshaf Noisemaker

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    That's good to know, Will. Thanks.
     
  20. oshaf

    oshaf Noisemaker

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    Why the integrated RMS though? I thought it's a loudness property.
     
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