You need to know the gain level of each stage properly set... so VU's are your friend, Each Nebula plugin needs proper gain heading into it.

Depends on how much gain is leaving the plugin, make up gain can be whatever you set it to.

If you can't understand how this works after watching my video, I suggest you do NOT use Nebula. It's advanced IR tech that samples hardware at -18dbfs and you MUST enter each Nebula instance at that gain level or issues arise.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2024

Will, no. I'm not talking about gain that leaves. I mean the gain in the middle of the processing. If I use an eq that boosts, surely it takes some effect. But what if i make a cut? It's gonna be below -18. Right? Doesn't matter if I try to raise the gain heading to the next instance, the previous one is to no avail.

 

Ah, ok, then we agree.

 

Do yourself a favour and stop thinking/talking in this number, use 0VU instead. For this calibration a sine wave with -18dBFS peak is used, musical content will have completely different values. Here are some examples, all peak around 0VU (-18)

 

Hey No Avenger! How are you?
All this talk about VU meters got me confused a little.
Is there a difference in using a regular trim knob before the plugin or using plugin's own preamp input knob for gain staging?

 

Alive and kicking how about you?

Veeery good question. In fact it depends. ATME for most pluggies it doesn't matter but for some it really does - but please don't ask me for which, I've made this comparison with so many of them, I can't remember a specific one.

 

If it helps I use this: https://www.hornetplugins.com/plugins/hornet-vu-meter-mk4/

 

Hahaha same here

Oh ok. Thank you for your answer

 

My oh my. I thought I know gain staging.

 

Nah, it's waaay less difficult than you might think.
Gain staging means FX out level = FX in level, that's it. No matter if it's hardware or software, which kind of effect or which kind of level.
Meaning, you can gainstage sample peak, true peak, RMS, VU, LUFS, whatever you want, it's still gain staging.

The most secure way to apply VU gain staging ITB is to a use leveling pluggie in the first slot and a VU meter as last in chain.
Without any additional plugin you use the leveling one to adjust the audio signal to 0VU.
Every additional plugin comes between them so you can set the output of the others again to 0VU. Simple as that.

There's only one case where you might need to be careful. Short percussive signals can reach +XdBFS when you set them to 0VU.

And I'd really use TBProAudio VU Meter. It's free, looks like a VU meter, has several GUIs to choose from, provides L/R and M/S and various other levels and you can collapse it to a single meter.

 

No Avenger got a mission: make everyone knows that digital VU meters are not calibrated with music BUT with a sine wave. We miss you pana, always deliver good knowledge to the masses hope u doing fine

 

You may find it as surprising as me, but we had pros and self-proclaimed pros here at AS who didn't not know exactly how this calibration was done.

Miss you too.

I try my second best. Hope you do fine aswell.

 

That's me on the stereo out channel until just before rendering.

 

I use Hornet VU calibrate to 0VU (-18 dbfs) with a Max of -10 dbfs at beginning chain. Then use LetiMix Gain match after each Nebula instance. Save chain to save time. Keep Nebula behave good.

 

Great video Will, i learned about hornet VU through the video! I do disagree, that you MUST enter every nebula instance at -18. As a rule of thumb, sure, but there are no hard laws in music, even hardware can be pushed harder on the input. Sometimes it breaks in a nice way.

 

The hardware is sampled in Nat at -18dbfs, so while yes you can do what you want, anything over -18dbfs will not give the sampled hardware's proper sound. This tech is not like other VSTs or hardware, it's like a sampled picture at that input level, anything over it is only adding Nebula artifacts, not altering the hardware tone. As always to each their own.

 

That's good to know, Will. Thanks.

 

Why the integrated RMS though? I thought it's a loudness property.