I made an effort to make sure i only use VST3 to the point where i deleted all of my VST2s to save space

 

The plugin is no longer available on their website! Tell me how old is it? Can you open the .dll and tell me the date. Or PM it to me, I'd love to test it!

 

This is the biggest reason to not use freeware plugins. Since there is nothing to crack, they are never archived by anyone. If the developer still exists, they usually "are unable to find a copy anywhere" if they remove something; or they go bust and sites disappear.

 

I was aware of the VST3 problems developers have (had?) with it since it was released. There is an awesome, informative, very long thread at KVR about it. Since they (Steinberg) made it more complicated to deal with than VST2 (put simply) VST3 plugins were most of the time buggier and less stable to use. Nowadays, it's still about how good of a programmer is the developer, and may find VST2 easier to deal with. VST3 plugins are usually a tiny bit less efficient, I've noticed, but that doesn't matter so much nowadays.

For me, it's CLAP against VST3 now. But I am always testing all formats of the plugin and see which behaves better regarding stability and efficiency. That's always a good idea if you have time. CLAP has also become stable and usable in the mean time, and I've generally noticed CLAP plugins are also a tiny bit more efficient than VST3 ones, regardless of having more/same features as VST3.

The problem with CLAP is, of course, companies like Steinberg, AVID... which love their proprietary formats, but in my experience Open Source formats always win in the end, and CLAP has gotten very popular last couple of years. No problem, I can absolutely live with two standards, until Stenberg does something wrong and make VST3 far worse than CLAP, and they will. Companies always make mistakes.

Look at Native Instruments which got bought in 2017 and again in 2021... and look at their products now. They generally smell badly, but keep being popular because many people have been using their products for years or decades even. It's really hard to break a (bad) habit...

 

Last edited: Nov 3, 2024

One caveat
Searching in Windows from a folder above the symlinked folder does not work, so one must go to the real folder to search.
Clicking the symlink and searching works, because you are then at the same level.
I moved my VST3 folder and symlinked it.
If i search in C:\Program Files\Common files, it only finds none of the ones in the symlinked location.
The fix is to go to the real folder , OR... add the target to the search indexer, as mentioned here
(But it isn't working for ME so far ...):
https://arstechnica.com/civis/threa...-or-directory-junctions.1426853/post-35089215

Spoiler: Symlink searching

However, the bad news in this use case is that the Windows Search Service filters out anything with the 'l' attribute (links), so it will not traverse your symlink. It could be a naive means of preventing loops in the index, but, regardless, it is a restriction. It could also be that way to prevent, for example, a user indexing a multi-terabyte SMB share at work, were they to symlink it into their documents or something fun like that. There are other means to prevent that sort of thing in Win10, but there are a bunch of other problems bad symlinks could cause for the indexer, including out-of-date index entries containing symlinks which, themselves, have not changed, but whose targets have changed and thus the index has no idea about it. The Win32 API does not provide change notifications for targets of symlinks (again, for a lot of good reasons), so I'm betting this is actually the main reason behind it getting filtered out.

Volume mount points are also links, and thus also do not work for this, so no dice there, either.
You're just going to have to add the new path to the search index yourself, unfortunately.

Just for funsies, I set up redirected folders under my documents folder, pointing to a new folder on another drive (all pointing to the same one), using all means available in Win 10: symlink, junction point, volume mount point, and shortcut.
I also put a text file in that folder and symlinked that file from Documents\testfile.txt. The file's contents were simply "This is a splendiferous test string." (pretty sure "splendiferous" doesn't exist in any other file in there, so it was a decent indexable choice).
Hard linking the file or folder is not possible, as it crosses a volume boundary, which is not allowed, since it's an actual MFT entry (and directory hard links are not allowed, either).

I then opened the start menu and tried to find the folder and the file, by name and by contents.

Not a single one of them worked.

Then, I added the target folder to the indexer, manually, forced a rebuild, and tried again.
It showed up, for sure (both via name and via contents), but only in its "real" location - none of the reparse points worked at all, and of course the shortcut did not, either.

When I removed the volume mount point, thereby leaving an empty folder in my documents folder, that folder then showed up in search, but it was, of course, still empty, since it never contained anything in the first place.

So, there's experimental proof for ya, to back up the theory that it's not possible through NTFS reparse points of any flavor (directory junctions, volume mount points, and symlinks are all reparse points).


Oh, and if you go through the search index UI and navigate to where your symlink or junction is, you'll notice it missing. That backs up that it's being filtered out intentionally.

 

Last edited: Nov 4, 2024

I just downloaded a few days ago from here:
https://www.straightaheadsamples.com/resources

The plugins seem to be dated to 14 Nov 2023, so one year old. And the developer still responded to questions on related youtube videos 8 months ago.

Spoiler: The reason for this plugin

I wanted to test some libraries with the smart-delay feature, from sister site, but without this non-smart plugin it's very finicky, you would have to move the non-smart instruments 4 beats back which is not practical using it in Dorico. The whole idea of this smart feature is to avoid the need of time consuming tweaking in midi.

 

Last edited: Nov 4, 2024

But the "real" question is (at least to me): what VST version to choose if a plugin have both ?

 

you may test it and see which consumes less CPU, memory, which loads faster...

 

Well, this implies to install both versions (VST2 *and* 3) on the same machine... non a good idea, IMHO.

To me - it's just a personal "feel" not a scientific measurement - I noticed more smoothness and less issues using multiple (12 to 20) VST3s.

Anyway I do NOT use any VSTi - which I heard are more problematic - instead.

(my workstations are both Intels i5 12th-based + Windows 11 OS + MAGIX Vegas 22 DAW/NLE)

 

Last edited: Nov 4, 2024

Did you install it according to the instructions?

The second plugin we are releasing now is technically a Kontakt multiscript
That gives you a single switch to turn all Smart Delay instruments on our off together.
https://www.straightaheadsamples.com/post/happy-2024-its-time-to-sync-things-up

Thank you for purchasing Non-Smart Delay Track Sync - Windows. To download your products, please follow these steps:

1. Download Pulse from www.pulsedownloader.com
2. Create an account or login
3. Enter the product's redemption key
4. The product will be added to your library. Click Install and choose your location to install the product

Check each product's page on our website to determine which of the following applies...

If you purchased one of our libraries that requires the Full-Kontakt version:

• After installation, click the "Files" tab of Kontakt and locate the folder you installed them to. Load the .nki files from there. Please ensure you have enough space on your hard drive to extract and install the product.

If you purchased one for the libraries that uses the Free Kontakt Player:

1. Activate those libraries in Native Access using the redemption key below. Then navigate to them in Kontakt under Libraries.
2. If you don't already have Kontakt 6/7 Player download the free download from Native instruments (Kontakt Player 7 / Kontakt Player 6)

Product's keys:

• Non-Smart Delay Track Sync - Windows:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

Yes, I did. It actually does not work not only the windows but the mac versions either. I mean, not the Smart-Delay that is a script in Kontakt but the Non-Smart plugin that is to use on other instruments to compensate the delay.

However, I just found an alternative to this. It's also free. It's called Pizmidi
This is a pack with many interesting plugins, the one that matters in this case is called midiDelay.dll
You just have to configure it properly.

 

Do you need this plugin because of some kind of plugin delay or hw latency compensation in your DAW not working right?
In what scenario do I need this thing?

 

No. It's meant for some of the Straight Ahead Samples libraries that use "smart delay" feature that "learns" the midi before it produces the sound, so it can more intelligently choose the right articulation for a more realistic performance. It needs 4 beats of intentional delay for their instrument, so you need to delay other instruments to keep them synced.
This clever feature is getting built in more and more Kontakt libraries. They call it with different names. In the past - as you probably know - libraries couldn't project which sample suites best as they did not know (midi did not let them know) the length of the note until they received the note off signal through midi. It screwed every legato patches, causing delays and inaccuracy.

Never mind. I think I found the solution.
The reason I posted this here is that vst3 seems less reliable (based on this single experience, very wise conclusion hehe), if there is a plugin that shows the definition and structure as vst3, hence it's not recognized by the DAWs. If it was just not loading the plugin, I could imagine a bad script or corrupted file but when it just simply don't show up, strange at least, ...or bad script and corrupted file.

Correction:
On mac the AU plugin actually showed up but did not load correctly either.

 

I go CLAP > VST3 > VST2 for long-term viability reasons, including possibly changing to a different processor architecture at some point (hardly any VST2s for Apple Silicon).

I want to keep updating my DAW, and I'll always be on a CLAP-supporting DAW, but VST2 might not be around forever. Because ... any developer that has acquired a license for VST3, also had their VST2 license terminated when they agreed to the VST3 license.

Recent updates to the VST3 SDK also terminated the clause that allowed you to support/issue VST2 plugins, if you previously had a VST2 license. The VST3 license also stipulates that you must, in perpetuity, update to the very latest version of the VST3 SDK (6 months grace period), which means that you also must, in perpetuity, agree to the latest terms of the license.

While extremely unlikely, this means that as of right now, Steinberg has the legal right to demand developers drop VST2 support in their DAWs.

 

A script is not a VST3 or a .dll and therefore does not appear in the usual directories.
For an example, please read on: Blue Cat's Plug'n Script --> www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_PlugNScript/
Example: UVI Script --> www.uvi.net/uviscript/

 

There are two different things. One is a Kontakt multiscript that features smart delay for the specific Kontakt library.
The other is a AU/VST3 plugin (non-smart...) to compensate the delay for other instruments that plays along with the smart-delay-library.

The multiscript is fine. The AU/VST3 plugins are the problem.
But let's move on...

 

Please give the full name? Have you the Smart Delay VST3) I wanted to download and install it, I had already registered, but then I had to install (Pulse downloader) a few other things and I didn't even install NI Kontakt. I would like to understand this...! Please send me the 'dll or VST3!

Smart Delay Toggle Sync
- Free multiscript that allows all instruments to toggle Smart Delay on/off with one click.

Non-Smart Delay Track Sync
Put this plugin on your other (non-Smart Delay) instrument or audio tracks in your DAW to delay them to match up with your Straight Ahead Samples Smart Delay instruments. AU and VST3 included (AAX not yet available, currently in development).

How do I download and install my new virtual instrument?
Or products are delivered using the free Pulse downloader and library management tool for Mac, Windows or Linux at https://pulsedownloader.com/

 

Last edited: Nov 4, 2024

The most annoying thing about VST3 for me is the way they are installed. The installers never ask where to install with no option to create a dedicated folder eg, a manufacturer like vst2 do. They are just scattered in \common files\vst3\.

 

well, I can see one reason for uniting every VST3 in one default folder. With VST2 each developer choose different locations for their plugins and you had to add those locations in your DAW manually. Some developers had even put their plugin in multiple locations and when you wanted to upgrade your Kontakt, for example, you didn't understand why your DAW or notation program still sees the previous Kontakt.

But not giving the option to choose other location for VST3 is really an arrogant and selfish way to solve this issue.

Has been a consensus in the industry before they finalized VST3? Or was it just Steinberg and some other big names that decided what is good for them?

 

So the result you get from "smart delay" is basically like a lookahead, but pushes all the other tracks backward to accommodate it? I've never had a need because of my Kontakt usage, but that is an interesting approach.

Anyway, for your VST all in one location; you probably know we have the same situation with Mac AU, VST,VST3 and Clap folders. Everything lives in those folders by default. But we can just create an Alias, or Symlink from the standard plugin folders to whatever target location and file you want. Can't this be done to work around the location issue you mention? I honestly prefer the whole "single folder location" more. Usually all the associated content is what I prefer keeping elsewhere.