Hello everyone.

Since I first started to make my own playlists, and finding my own music as a young teenager I've been on a quest to find the most profound and groundbreaking music. To find the music that metaphorically sits all the way at the bottom of the iceberg, or the music that is found at the tip of the pyramid. The finest displays of genius, craftsmanship and raw emotion.

I barely spend any time online, so I wouldn't know what kind of discussions regarding music appear out there, but from my experience in real life, I rarely find people who aim to find the absolute best of the best. Hence why I'm starting this thread.

I aim for it to start a big sharing event. A moment of altruism where can come together and discuss the best of what we've come across in our lives and share it. I hope it can also create new and fresh discussions, or at least advance old discussions further than before.

I will start this by expressing my disappointment in rap/hiphop. I've struggled to find anything good in this genre. Part of it is my fault, as I don't really try anymore. I give up from the get go.

If any of you know some real profound hiphop, I would appreciate finding out about it. I aim to find hiphop that can make me cry the way a bittersweet piano solo could. Maybe the ramblings of a grieving man slowly decaying from pain. Hell, commentary on society if it's done well enough. Just please, for the love of god, something far better than what the mainstream has to offer.
I'm looking for some beautiful poetry executed with flawless flows, on an instrumental that actually drives me emotionally. I'd love to find something like that.

I will also start this discussion by sharing what I deem to be one of the best piano players/composers in recent years, the late AJ Hickling. He tragically passed away right at the end of 2023, soon before being able to realize his biggest project to date. That being, conducting his own orchestra based on his original compositions. Luckily for his audience, he released four of those orchestral pieces made with virtual libraries before passing away. It's an album known as "Orchestral Dreams", which can be found on his bandcamp. This at least allows me to imagine what it could've been like to witness his orchestra in person.
He was a very prominent busker in New Zealand. He has done more other varied styles of music too. I highly recommend checking him out.

 

This album.... not really hip hop at all, but there are hip hop influenced instrumental sections.

Here... left of center. Neuro Dnb with sick rapper.

More from Camo & Crooked and Mefjus.. beautiful cinematic Dnb

more of the same... insane arrangement, sound design and mix.

 

Foster..the People

 

black midi

 

I am very unfamiliar with this band, and this style of music. Would you say that within it's own niche, it is of the highest caliber?

edit: I mean it's some damn good music, that's for sure.

 

theres just multiple levels to that yo, largely cultural things and experiences in regards to hip-hop that will go over your head. plus your understanding of the English language, largely in regards to slang terms used here in the U.S. is also pretty important. in a genre thats largely around lyrics, lacking this makes it harder to see whats profound in general

for instance, the concept and lyrics in this song is a pretty profound statement with icy wordplay and imagery; around trauma in the U.S.; that works against how that can make people feel, when theyre already trapped in environments that are difficult to get out of. this would go over majority of the worlds head hearing it, even from a mainstream artist

theres a popular phrase thats reiterated by a lot of artists in that genre on having to “dumb it down”; thats the reason why. with what i mentioned plus the added word play of phrases, whats profound just goes over peoples head on a large scale, or misunderstanding whats meant by certain words takes people out of it

=================================​

another part Hip-hop in itself is also a culture, originally centered around 5 pillars

MCing = Oral
DJing = Aural
Breakdancing = Physical
Graffii = Visual
Knowledge = Mental

rhythm is important in all styles of music but Hip-hop is a rhythm focused genre, like a lot of electronic music - the flow in the words, the beats, the chopped samples, its all around rhythm, originally rooted in dancing, either at parties; where the MC would be like the hype man for the DJ and for Breakdancing. so on a fundamental level, whats suppose to move you is physical (like a lot of EDM). though the lyrics and performances can emotional do that; but if you lack the Knowledge(mental) aspect like i said, or arent open to learning and being empathetic towards it, youll miss it a lot it - in order to reach the world at large it has be dumbed down, what youre hearing and complaining about is that, whether its mumbling, songs about money or sex; people at large can widely and easily relate too that, the other stuff just goes over most peoples head like i said. still...

We Major by Kanye West

Suicidal Thoughts by Notorious B.I.G

Don't Cry by J.Dilla

J.Dilla is a very influential producer (in hip-hop thats beatmakers) who actually made that very influential instrumental album literally on his death bed. where every song is a messages to his loved ones though his sampling; which makes the project extremely profound if youre aware of that

but theres a lot, im someone who can find music i like in every genre ive learned not everyone is like that - but if you look through hip-hop with this lens, you might be able to see whats profound about it artistically and why its so impactful in the world easier

 

I had a knee jerk reaction that this was a new Foster troll thing but I realized it probably wasn't.

 

I personally believe the music should speak for itself. As the listener I shouldn't have the responsibility of educating myself if I want to enjoy the art at all. The artist himself can simply do a proper job at expressing what he wishes to express.

If the artist chose to dumb it down, that's on him. It's a flawed creative decision.

Again, I believe I shouldn't have to educate myself to enjoy art.
Not too long ago I randomly stumbled upon 'funeral doom metal'. Some shit I was a complete stranger to. At first it was weird and outlandish. Then I just kept listening and eventually got into it. I didn't need to look up why I should care about this guy screaming in a mic. I didn't have to do my homework on the personal circumstances of a band to understand them. The music simply spoke for itself.
I didn't have to force myself to be empathetic towards the funeral doom metal bands, because their music did that for me.
I mentioned AJ Hickling in the original post of this thread. I never had to do my homework on him or try and empathize with him because I did all of that through his piano compositions naturally. They spoke for him.

I know for a fact that if a very talented hiphop artist really wants to speak to the world as a whole he could. Without the need for context, or to be part of the same group as him in the first place. To make a song anyone in the world could enjoy as long as they spoke English. Arguably, even if someone didn't speak English they should still enjoy the song thanks to the artist's energy in his vocals, as well as the quality of the instrumental backing the rapper.
And I'm sure songs like that exist. Hiphop music of a high caliber like that. What you've shown me though, I don't feel like it's at that level. I want to express gratitude though, because I will still be enjoying them. They're good. They're just not amazing. I'm sure this genre has more to offer somewhere out there.
Thank you for your input.

 

Would you mind elaborating as to what made you think it would be a troll?

 

Old but good. arguably / low key one of the most influential rappers, at least for modern trap / rap shit. produced by clams casino, who is insane in his own way. Both songs sample Imogen Heap

One more from the same batch of songs -

Heres something more recent from Clams Casino, that is quite impressive. Complete 180 from the above songs. Full album is worth a listen. Meditative, emotional and ethereal

 

That's easy, because it is transparent. All you have to do is read your post where you attempt to establish yourself as someone whose opinion about music somehow qualifies you to pass judgement on various hiphop artists, albums, tracks. "that's not good enough for me.", as if someone owes you something.

I hate to ruin the ending to a story, but that is how your thread will proceed.

 

@Pastorigin : well yo, it might be time to change your approach to some music, thats part of maturing as a listener, all genres have a different approach to music and things that audiences are drawn too about them. if you set the expectation that you have to approach every genre the same, youll set yourself up for disapointment. i mean you dont have to do anything; but if you really feel this way:

then its probably time to take another look at further definitions of the word "profound"



that insight i shared is likely to help you find more profound music in the genre homie; if youre open too it that is - doesnt seem like your approach is working, approaching it differently would help if thats really what youre looking for. take it or dont, its your choice

 

Well, it's all completely subjective. One man's truth is another man's libel, one man's hell is another man's bible.

Someone might say a piece by Bull of Heaven is a genius concept:

Some of their pieces last days, years and even millions of years long, but I wouldn't necessarily say any of these were catchy tunes.

 

I wouldn't come up for air just yet...

 

Damn spoilers..

 

It's all simple, muh boy...

There are three types of music: popular music, contemporary music, and club music (or genre-specific music)

Pop in its current state was born in 1975-1976, when punk proclaimed its revolution over complexity of form. Basically all popular music after that is post-punk, in that sense. You see - pop-music is a sort of mixed coctail. A little bit of this, a little bit of that. A bit of disco, and a jazz, and symphony and country and r'n'b and deep house, and all kinds of stuff, just so your casual listener (the object of forementioned punk-revolution) would never go home bored.

With genre-specific (or club) music it goes that there are basically two types of performers: ones who master the craft seeking the new form, and others who do the same, but they chose fame over experiment. We all know the "fame" guys, but most often they just combined the clichés of their own genres, making it, again, more available to general public.

With contemporary music... well, where does it even come from? And what we can call a contemporary music today? It feels like guys from 20th century were the lucky ones cause, yknow, they had the avant-gard, the prog, all that kinds of things. And they all looked cool... Academic avant-garde guys in their usual sharp suits, prog guys often provocative but innovative, not just "fashionable" in our sense of this word. Frank Zappa said that todays music cannot be imagined without an accompanying "fashion campaingn", so that fans of that new "subculture" could dress accordingly to what they listen.

What should you listen to? Jeez, hell do I know? That's your taste, your head. But one thing I know for sure... Pop-music guys - they are the worst. Not the ones who make it (they are ok), but the ones who consume it...

 

P.S. check the Anticon label
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNFssgg38Xv4wFSVOKgFJ4Ne_Dpc2X2sH&si=gVJBm_w6OkdPJEoQ

 

Anticon is a good call. I was going to suggest Sage Francis to see if that satisfied OP's "ramblings of a grieving man slowly decaying from pain."

How about:

 

Or what about Tobe Nwigwe?