So, I have drum loops which I'd like to extract the groove from. I did a bit of research and saw many recommendations for 1) Dynamic Split; 2) SWS Groove Tool. Works for very simple beats only, but even then, Dynamic Split is a pain to work with.

So I realized with Reaper I couldn't jump straight to extracting grooves and settled with the idea of extracting MIDI from transients. So I devised the following method:

1) Import loop
2) Crop the loop by ear (can Reaper do this on its own?)
3) Set track timebase to time and create measure from time selection
4) Plug a 3rd party beat detector tool (Fuse Audio Labs SSX)
5) Render it to a multichannel track
6) Import the multichannel track back
7) Explode multichannel track to 3 tracks (hats, kicks, snares)
8) Plug JS: MIDI to audio
9) Load up Transient Detection Settings to have a reading of my threshold
10) Apply track to new take (MIDI out) (do this for all 3 tracks)
11) Insert notes in a new MIDI clip mapped to the their respective drum parts

Now, 11 steps might seem a lot, but the worst part is the time it takes, not to mention how convoluted it is. Is there a better way? Thanks!

NB: I'm not looking for drum replacement tools whose only output is audio; I'm looking for either a practical groove tool or at least an easier way to get MIDI tracks out of transients.

 

Last edited: Sep 26, 2024 at 1:38 AM

What if you use an AI drum stem extractor? The same kick, hihat and snare + percussion, if available, then a trigger plugin. I did this to replace all the drums. I used UVI drum replacer, but you can use another one.

 

"Now, 11 steps might seem a lot, but the worst part is the time it takes, not to mention how convoluted it is. Is there a better way? Thanks!"

It's pretty quick and easy to make actions like this on Reaper if you can script. Reaper is great at finding BPM for drum loops, so it'll probably crop it right. If it doesn't, you can just browse through transients by hitting TAB.

 

That Fuse Audio Labs plugin is almost that. If only it'd output MIDI, it would save me soooo much time. I think the same goes for aptrigga, Drumagog or Slate Trigger. What do you suggest?

Unfortunately I can't. I like Reaper, but really dislike this 'linux' vibe it has. I'm torn between having a go at Ableton Live just for this task or Addictive Trigger (it claims to output MIDI).

 

Last edited: Sep 26, 2024 at 6:23 AM

Not sure what you want, but maybe this helps

 

Thank you, I've seen this one. It might work for melodies, it makes sense it would work for drums, but I tested it and it didn't work at all.

What I want is just to extract grooves from recorded drum loops. That's 'problem A'. After some research, I'm starting to think Reaper just can't really do that (Dynamic Split sucks). So problem B is generating MIDI from audio drum loops and using that MIDI file as rendered or extracting the groove from it.

 

Try Ableton Live. Check this out: https://www.studiobrootle.com/extract-groove-ableton/

I can't honestly think of another way to achieve what you described, with a good level of control, without going through most of the steps you mentioned.

 

Tracker in Superior drummer 3 (audio to midi esp. for drums)

 

Aptrigga's detection algo is really good, way better than Reaper's Dynamic Split. If only it had a MIDI output... But the creator intended it to be used live. Now I don't know how precise Live's groove extractor is, but it's just one button. For the first time I am really disappointed with Reaper.

Isn't that just a drum replacer, like drumagog? I use Addictive Drums, wouldn't work.

 

At least Reaper offers you a way to group most of those actions you mentioned into a single and instant click of a button, it just takes an initial setup. I'm not aware of any other DAW that can do that, at least not with the level of control you described. If you happen to find one, please let me know it! I know how dynamic split can be a bit unpredictable and hard to navigate but all other steps are a breeze.

And yeah, apTrigga3 is probably the best in its category! It might be worth making a feature request on apulSoft's KVR forum.

 

Last edited: Sep 26, 2024 at 7:09 AM

Separate everything with SpectraLayers 11, twice until the you get the single drum element. High quality settings on "Extreme". Might take an hour for WAV/FLAC files (half an hour each time). Then you can you which one you like for triggering plugin precisely. If just want to extract groove timing, since I use Studio 1, I just drag the loop to the tempo section, and be done with it. I don't use all that in Reaper even when it's possible to do so, here and there with other DAW to get what I want seems the way to go for quality.

 

This is crazy amount of time to spend on this whole thing. Recycle can do this so quickly. Actually, Zero-X Beat Creator and Beat Quantizer also could. I think the problem with that old option is it was killed by Imageline buying it and doing nothing with it. Including never adding 24bit file support.

Logic (in versions from 10.5 and later) and it's stock Drum Machine Designer does this as quickly as Recycle. It even loads every slice into it's own sampler instance, creates a channel for each instance, and inserts them into a Summing Track Stack with it's own group. It generates a corresponding Midi file to trigger all the sampler instances. There has to be some better way for other DAWs. I think there is a similar approach in Ableton.

 

Last edited: Sep 26, 2024 at 7:42 AM

Have you seen this?

or this:

 

I agree about this but damn the quality is so satisfying.

 

If you want nearly perfect results, it's worth your time. You are probably also doing this with full stem length audio files, of a live drummer? For client work, that would make perfect sense. When you are looking to simply snatch the "groove" to Midi data, like the OP mentions; you might not even do the whole file. You'd have some creative license to cut it into loops, so you aren't separating a few minutes of audio at a time. Or just processing the sections with problems.

An interesting development for more loop based scenario, is that they added AI Separation in Serato Sample v2.0. I haven't tried it but Sample v1 had very good audio quality already, and it can do hitpoint detection in only a few mouse clicks. Another I expected to be mentioned would be Toontrack EZ Drummer, because they did a great job on the Bandmate AI feature in EzKeys2. Maybe they have updated this stuff too.

 

try this https://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?mode=hybrid&t=235731

 

No kidding. Ableton does this with one click.

I have. These do not generate MIDI nor groove, just replace samples with other samples. My final aim is editable MIDI. But thanks!

I realized any method available in Reaper (that I came across) is more cumbersome and time-consuming than just manually grabbing each transient and drawing MIDI notes without snapping to grid. So I figured, a 3rd party slicer could help. MK Slicer, however, seems not to align well with Reaper and the slices end up out of place. See:


I read someone suggesting Big Fish Audio's Momentum. I think I'll first try Addictive Trigger, even though I suspect it's just another drum replacement tool not as good as aptrigga and equally without MIDI output.

As I understand it, this suggests Dynamic Split (I don't understand why Reaper still features this) and a quantizer tool... I don't want to quantize anything; quite the contrary, I want a groove extraction tool.

 

Oops, NO and NO. You analyze an audio loop in the program dedicated for this special task, audition results with a stylistically appropriate drum library and then export MIDI file by drag-n-drop.

 

Last edited: Sep 26, 2024 at 6:35 PM

Of course! MK Slicer takes a lot of work off your hands, but not the thinking.

To make the loop fit:
lower threshold and retrig, click on set bpm when green.

To get midi:
set midi mode to pitch detect, select detection preset (drums in your case), click on midi.

Done.