You have inadvertently explained why so many people who were not smart enough to finish high school, that did read the manuals and opened streaming sites have made so much money and gained piles of studio gear and followers from subscriptions.
Simply because people do not want to spend time learning slowly, they want everything immediately, handed to them on a silver platter. I could add gaming streamers to that list, but that's even worse as many of them cannot even read or pronounce many of the written words properly and the people who pay them, want all the answers NOW.

Welcome to the lazy 21st Century.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2024

Do this, this, then, this, and a bit of that, and Finished!

 

Lol they just turn the volume down bro, there's no special converting going on. What a colourful imagination you have.

The only "converting" that spotify does is if your song is too quiet they'll put a shitty limiter algorithm on it to boost the gain.

 

That is worse than turning the amplitude/attenuation down if it's too loud. Especially if the tune is musically dynamic (light & shade). If the limiting is as shitty as you say, it will make the soft parts loud and crush the crap out of the louder parts.

 

It's not my imagination, please read there, directly from the source.

Tho I note there's something new (compared to the last time I read documents about it): a special -11 LUFS "loud" preset. I suppose they have introduced this new preset to content EDM composers and DJs, who want to push their loudness as far as they can.

Though please note that there is a drawback when you use the -11 LUFS "loud" option: they ask you to lower your maximum peak to -2 db (even if you don't (wanna) do that yourself, they'll do it anyway, because they are so afraid of (potential) distortion, poor fragile little things... )

Please also read here (at the bottom) for a synthetic table summing up the demands of different platforms (with links) You will note that Apple maintains a very conservative -16 loudness, didn't knew that.

For comparison / perspective, note also that the norm for Cinema is -23 (-27 for Netflix, and always -2 MTP).

 

Last edited: Jul 3, 2024

1 keep my mix at around use satson or something with the saturation off, nice and clean -18dbl
2 use an EQ to shape mix to get it how you like, a tilt eq to get the brightness and then a shelf to bring the low end back up.
3 Deep low end push. Acustica White3 set to 30hz and about 2db, might ad some 10khz to give some extra zing.
4 Equalize resonance with Smart EQ on Universal and on 100% Adaptive, if you were off this will get you very balanced now. Use your ears as to how much impact to add, i use it totally wide over the whole spectrum.
5 Multi comp, not always on I like Drawmer 1973, Just 1db on the parts that you want to control, bass too much? Loud parts of the mid, i might just tuck the top end a tiny part if the track is harsh.
6 Normal comp, I use Sonoris Master comp about 1.40 with a long release or on auto, if your track cant breath and has no punch, use little to no compression,
7 Saturation. right now im using VSE-EQ 4 just for saturation or though the eq section can be used later if needed to tweak or automate in master. You should not hear the saturation but the overall mix will sound bigger and more pro
8 stereo Widener, Im using SSL Fusion and
9 then I'm using Master Plan for more wide as they work well together.
Set the limiter off also just control width if needed Thick if you want even more thump, 10-15% and Clean if the whole thing feels constrained, up- 20% sometimes just 5% is all that is needed, the new midrange eq latest update is good to use early on with the your first eq for the bold shaping. very good. Hardly ever use the bass and treble there.
10 clipper. Currently using MB Mixhead as its amazing. It will give you the magic and movement. use low drive -3 or something
11 Limiter I'm using a 2nd Master Plan,8x oversampling, it will give more definition. i go for about -6dbl over all, sometimes will peak in to -5. of you can get it higher -7 and up the better, but use an AB against other tracks to see where you are. Metric AB for that. also use the filters in that to compare low, mid and high end.

I have some secret weapon plugins for colour and feel that i use that i don't talk about but this is pretty much it. Its always changing though.
Some times i will swap out limiters and sometimes i might change the order a bit if there are issues, if its too static i will use gullfoss after Smart EQ to get even more sparkly movement. use with small amounts, no more then 15%

 

I wouldn't have validated Barncore's snide remark there, but he's technically correct, there's no special "converting" going on, just different setting for "Loud" songs... though there's nothing to compare that A5/R100 against as far as how they process other tracks. For a bunch of shady mf'ers by trade, it's a little surprising that Spotify added the Attack and Release of their limiter settings at all, though that makes it a bit disappointing that they didn't go full-geek and lay it all out for the audio-curious (sexual allusion intended.)

Speaking of technical terms, I'd be curious what "shitty" algorithm you're talking about. Is it a deal where you're not a fan of an actual algorithm that they've got going on over there, or is that just a jab at Spotify/streaming-reqs?

 

I enjoyed reading all of that. Great...
Yes Worrall is a bit of a legend these days, nothing beats a straight-ahead no-frills-read or no-frills tutorial that cuts to the point and yes to Mastering being a field that takes years to develop and is a different ballpark to mixing a session. Every time I see someone say nobody needs it or it's BS tells me they know absolutely nothing about it. Next to a mastering engineer I do not know much about it other than the processes, and the training takes years as you said - but I know enough to see them do it in fine detail exceptionally well and see how much skill is involved in the process.

The OP needs to speak to a Pro.

 

You should be asking yourself the simplest question. Are you 100% sure that your final mix is perfect? If yes, let it sit there for a week and listen to it again. If you still find it perfect you are either a genius or most likely need to learn much more because there is NO perfect mix bro.
When attacking cornerstones of the music industry like mastering you better be ready to present to your fellow forum members your "perfect" mixes and let 'em hear for themselves your artistry or lack thereof or at least your technical prowess.
Atm i 'm all ears hehehe...

 

To me it is not very practicable to state that you can pay all of the people doing it out there one after another and it still is not perfect.
This makes the whole process completely unnecessary at all.
So indeed, there has to be a more thought through definition of the necessity of this process.

I never stated that I create something like this.

 

Last edited: Jul 3, 2024

When you are discussing Mastering, how often do you really get an extra week to just let something sit?

You are maybe speaking about Mastering your own songs/tracks or whatever material? I think one of the best improvements you can most easily make, is to have someone else handle it on your own stuff. You get a fresh set of ears on it and that can be more valuable than anything else you can do. Even if they aren't as "good at it", within reason of course...

 

At the first glance it's not about mastering, but mixing via mastering plugins through...the master bus...
didn't know of such aproach and will try it:
Mixing Backwards - Have You Tried It?
http://surl.li/kvbquk

 

Loud/-11LUFS have been there for YEARS. More than 6 years, if I think back.

The problem is that if you are listening to music that has LOWER loudness (like classical, jazz, folk, movie soundtracks, etc), Spotify will apply a really ugly limiter that will make things louder (and sound like garbage) in order to reach -11LUFS.
But if you are listening to a playlist of tracks hovering around -7LUFS you are all good.

The -2dB peak is to avoid excessive ISP/overs distortion in the DAC, which is dependant on what you are listening on (some [cheaper] gear has more clipping/distortion than other gear). Something that is out of Spotify's hands, so they safeguard themselves to eliminate people complaining about "Spotify quality", when its their own gear that is distorting.
But no ME is taking that "suggestion" seriously. -0.2dB peak is a pretty common standard and middle-ground.

 

Last edited: Jul 3, 2024

I am yet to meet a good engineer who after the project is released did not say they could have done something differently. No mix is ever really finished, it gets to a point where it is the best that could be done at the time.

 

Thank you @Barncore, @eXACT_Beats_, @BaSsDuDe and @Baxter for all the precisions!

Very interesting thread indeed, learned few things reading, which is the real point of these kind of discussions, isn't it?
Subject of mastering is really infinite, depending of your target platform(s) / audience(s).. and taste.

@aleksalt This is exactly what I do (for my amateur prods): mixing and mastering at the same time, i didn't knew it has a name! thanks for the link!

 

Indeed. And remember, no master is complete without a thick hall reverb strictly relegated to your sub-bass frequencies.

 

Well...There is the myriads youtubers who claim to do mastering with obviously controversial results, there's your thousands in upwork and people per hour again with controversial results and there's the established professionals who 've been doing it for years. Some mastering engineers specialize in certain genres they know well. Some (usually older) will do it all. Spending your money to the first person you come across is not wise, right?
Backtracking a bit the only people who need pro mastering and don't know who will do it for them, are aspiring professionals. Or perhaps rich enthusiasts. Either way, when you 're going down the rabbit hole that makes a "sell-able product" finished (album/single/EP etc) you have to do some research and find the right person for the job.
It is not a secret that the mastering engineers with the most accolades are older people. Understanding genres and intricate "intentions" , mannerisms and minuscule accents within a musical content is not a job for younger ears because they lack experience and most valuable deep music genre comprehension and interpretation. And the most critical stage in mastering is not the gear you use but the listening part. Where you listen repeatedly identifying the weaknesses and strengths of every track and meticulously taking notes.
Some years ago i had to master a cd compilation with bands from all over the world. The comp's central theme was bands who have a 60s sound close to the psychedelic era. All of the tracks were previously released individually so this was actually a re-master to make 'em all conform to a nice listening experience with a good flow. For two weeks i was listening and taking notes as i had to deal with 18 very different songs. What you will use in the mastering process is really irrelevant guys. Every person has his/her own personal style. You read some good books on mastering and in theory you will know what to use. But there is nothing to train your ears instantly. This is not a process that comes to fruition overnight or in a week or two. The most important part in mastering is understanding what is needed every time and this definitely is not a practice for the inexperienced. The most expensive gear any reputable mastering engineer has, is their ears.
Cheers.

Just so the newer peeps know i 'm not bullshitting, if any of you guys dig 60s pop/rock psychedelia here, please enjoy if you can. Personally i was amazed when listening to this and had a blast remastering it, there are some very good tracks here imho.
Info here:
https://www.discogs.com/release/10653595-Various-Music-From-The-Basement-Vol-2
Listen here:

PS: My favorite track is "Put that in your pipe (and smoke it)" .

 

Last edited: Jul 4, 2024

This is usually called Top Down Mixing and you will get exponentially more search results looking into it that way. The title obviously got a little clickbait phrasing to it, and even the author uses the term top down within the article. Obviously it worked, because here people are reading this one.

It's a good way to learn mixing with all your adjustments moving in one direction. You are just doing systematic incremental changes, instead of wildly adjusting stuff over and over again. It's great for getting your rough mix, balance, and so on. You can even use "Mastering plugins" on the 2 bus, but you really want to be bypassing or removing them and rebuilding a chain that is tailored to the individual track. I like to stick The God Particle there because of how much you can abuse it as an adaptive limiter. You can add your favorite Class A plugins there, but it's all still a part of your Mixing process. Even if this is a workflow you like, you should always reimport the rendered file back into a blank DAW session and do more small adjustments and metering. With your original reference track(s) reloaded as well. Metric A/B, Match EQ it, whatever you need to do to the one stereo render. But this is "finalizing" your mix, not really Mastering. The Self-Aggrandizing process has not even begun yet.