Hi,

i ask myself if anyone (like me) makes music just on headphones. And if yes, which headphones do you use. I switched from Beyerdynamics DT 770 Pro to Sennheiser HD 650 a few days ago and my experience is just plain horrible. It seems that i backed the wrong horse. All i ever made sounds muddy and i am afraid of it to be actually muddy.

 

Hey lowpass. If you search around the forum a bit, especially if you look in the sections Mixing and Mastering or Studio you can find much info about this in some previous threads like these:

LINK 1

LINK 2

LINK 3

 

I've always used SONY MDR-7506 or V6's. Nice sounding headphones.

I like mixing on headphones but have always found that the concept seems to make the music sound much better than it actually is!
Maybe because the sound is in such close proximtity to the ears or something

 

Should have stuck with the beyerdynamic brand.

I used to mix on the 770pro then I switched to the dt880 and it was a huge difference for the better. Yes the bass is much less powerful than on the 770's, but the response is very neutral as well as very tight and accurate.

The problem with the 770 is that they are closed back so the lower frequencies bounce around in the cans skewing the accuracy. The 770's may have a flattering effect on the sound, as well as awesome comfort, which is which is perfect for tracking; it's just not that effective for mixing.

If you are going to mix on a pair of cans, stick with the brand you already know and like. It doesn't get much better than BD, and with the 880's you will get a much better image while mixing that translates fairly well.


That being said, I would still highly recommend you A/B other songs while you are mixing in headphones...


Also, don't forget to reference your tracks on proper monitors too. Headphones will never be able to replace speakers, but the best combination is surely to have both (and multiple headphones and speakers). The more you know right?

One of my favorite producers of all time (Stimming) seems to recommend akg k702 and shure srh 840, and although I highly value his opinion, the Beyerdynamics sounded much more natural and were way more comfortable. I have compared all 3 side by side. Here is his quote:

“ DO I NEED A HEADPHONE? ” yes! they allow you to immediately hear your mix from a different angle which is very valuable. If your mix sounds good on your speakers AND your headphones then its fine. I found out that everything I tweak on the headphones makes sense on the speakers as well. you need headphones built for studio work though. The ones I have: akg k702 and shure srh 840"

Either way, good luck in your choice.


-Some guy who has had a lot of headphones.

 

Sometimes you have no choice but to work in headphones. I have those BeyerDynamic DT770s too. They're the only set I've used without later having an awful reality check listening through monitors again.

Other people are elitists about the ohmage but the 80s are fine for me.

 

I agree with this all the way. The MDR-7506s work for me but you can't just use cans. You need to mix on monitors that you have become familiar with. You can check with headphones for balance and intricacies of the mix.

 

Bear in mind new headphones always take time to 'burn in' Typically 2-4 weeks of average for most models before their true sound becomes apparent.....

 

I've a 'allexandro music 1' here, basically a modified Grado sr60 or sr80. It was the first 'real' headphone I bought, more quickly followed. AKG 271 mk2, Shure 840, and some chinese ripoffs with surprising good sound (but still like the Shure the most) Superlux HD681 and HD681 Evo (had to resolder some wires on both the Superluxes within the first 6 months though :P).

Anyway, knowing your headphone's good and bad points helps a lot, and that only comes with experience. Comfort is more important, but if they sound completely different that's good -> use it to your advantage, your music must sound at least OK on both .

I'm doing a lot of work on the headphones, and use ToneBoosters Isone to emulate the soundstage of speakers (call it speaker and room emulation for headphones). I don't use it all the time, I toggle it on and off regularly, and switch the different speaker sounds it does every now and then (switch from 'regular Hi-Fi' to 'studio monitor a', 'studio monitor b' and 'laptop' and 'mono speaker'). Also the preset 'too much' which emulates a Hi-Fi set which is bass-boosted and treble-boosted way too much is handy, to see if your song is still holding up. I keep the 'room' always set to 'regular nearfield' though, don't like too much room and ambience all the time .

So I never would blindly trust something I did with headphones, and I would never blindly trust 'speaker emulation', but toggling it on and off and switching all the presets around every now and then to see how it holds up get me a very long way.

For example, after a while you realize that everything I mixed on a certain headphone (the regular Superlux HD681 for instance) always comes out too dark. No matter how much toggling of simulations I do while mixing with them on, when I pop the result in my car or homestereo the clarity is gone and I miss some high-end. In other words, the HD681 is a bit too bright apparently. What sounds like high end enough through them, sounds like not enough on other devices. So when I work with the HD681 on, I have a little high-shelf EQ on my monitoring-track (or end of master bus) that tones the high end down a bit. If I now make something that sounds 'alright' to my ears, it matches way better on real speaker stereo setups. I 'learned' a short-coming from my headphone, and adjusted to it. On the other hand, while I'm trying to mic up my guitar cabinet, I'm looking for the brightest spot that does not sound harsh. I pick the HD681's now, because I now they have a lot of high content. It makes it easier to judge what is happening in the high end (even if the headphone has too much of it). Shortcoming of the headphone used to my advantage.

In the end, it never will match mixing on a properly treated room with (multiple sets of) good studio monitors. But with trial and errors - and learning your common mixing mistakes - you can get a long way. It just makes it a bit harder.

If you have a song that you're really proud of, it maybe worthwhile fork up the cash to have it mixed by a pro .

 

Also I just found a link comparing all 3 I mentioned above lol....HF Forums

 

DT-880 600 here. There's no turning back for me.
600 Ohms is not an elitism if you're serious about sound. Sure, if you only listen over-compressed music on your phone it might be useless.

Takes weeks (months?) to burn, but it really shines after that, especially with classical music.
I even prefer it to the T1 and for the price, it's a no-brainer.

A good tip is to listen everything through your headphones, so you know them well and that's the key for tracking/mixing.

 

Ok ... I have to help. I never post here but you need this so here go's. Yes headphones are not the best to mix with but that's not why your mix sounds muddy. Yes monitors should be used also but if you cannot then you cannot. Try this, place Izotope Ozone in your master turn only the maximizer on now get your mix nearing what you want using volume envelopes or riding faders down the tracks, however you do it. Now go over to TerryWest: MHORSE P3 Parallel Mastering Unit v1.58 It's free insert it behind Ozone adjust the eq to your liking but do it subtractively. This plugin tends to brighten and is good in your master chain. If your gain structure is ok then you should already be shedding some mud. Now try the clarity buttons after selecting your choice there move on to the NEWYORK and Then to the MOTOWN selection buttons and choose your sound. Now select your choice of sound in the LP and HP button section. You should be punchy with clarity at this point and the mud is probably out. Next listen to see if these settings fit well for the entire length of your track, it probably wont. When you hear that there is a section that doesn't work add another MHorse Vst adjust to what you need for that section and mute the original Mhorse Vst. The idea is that you are going to use a seperate copy of Mhorse for every section that needs it to the end of the track muting prior copies. Izotope Ozone's Maximizer stays engaged regardless and you use Mhorse for sculpting your sound.

Hope that clears the mud for you.

 

I use the Sennheiser 650 for a time now and I think it's great! It also has great reviews. Of course, the 800 model could be better but is much more expensive and there's also a similar model the 600 but I'm fine with the 650 as a second reference (besides monitors). The problem with monitors is, you need 1. very good ones and 2. a 'professional' room to take most advantage from it (talking about the mixing and mastering process). And that's something what I don't have so yes I learned also to use my headphones (especially handy at nights). The way you do that is by - indeed - A/B'ing to already released material or stems. I my opinion your choice wasn't bad but you already learned to use that other headphone. So it needs a while to get familiar with the 'new' sound. If you know how something should sound then it's much easier to use different tools (monitors, headphones and even testing on several other audio devices). At the end of the road it's the combination of different approaches which result in a satisfied product or not.

 

i used to do 100% of my mixing on my KRK KNS-6400 headphones. they have a nice sound, but are uncomfortable to wear for an extended period.

maybe 6 months ago i started mixing on some old shitty speakers, like the kind you get from walmart for $20. using the shitty speakers forced me to take notice of everything that was wrong with the mix. if it sounds good on those speakers, it sounds better on headphones.

also, when i listen to music on headphones, my ears get fatigued 10X faster.

try making and mixing a song on bad speakers, i promise you will teach yourself something new!

 

Exactly why NS10's became so popular. They were originally designed for the budget hi-fi market. Can't believe people still pay so much for them when there are loads of cheap domestic hi-fi speakers equally as bad (but useful for checking a mix!)

 

I'm incredibly happy with my modded AKG K701 and K240, you have to have a good and precise signal source though.
Very light and neutral across the entire spectrum, and WIDE sound stage *yes*

Folks often say the bass is weak, but it's not. It sounds exactly as recorded. Reveals every inconsistency and throws it into your face.
Best sounds under very low volumes and power (0.1 - 1 mW)

 

i use headphones for 2 reasons :

1/ when i must be discrete
2/ to complete the full range i don't own with my low end 5" monitors, i mean to get the sub bass.

So i bought 2 years ago, the Ultrasone Pro 900s which is perfect for that :

Yes it's a closed and supra-aural one but if your bass sounds are good on it, it will be at 90 % good on your monitors because it is cruel. With it, i discovered how my room sucks.
More over it's very detailed on all the spectrum.
But i must admit it's not comfortable and hurts a bit the the top of the head after around 1 or 2 hours. And if its sound seems to be muffled at the beginning, if fastly appear that it's an illusion and when you'll get used to it, you'll be glad to be able to trust into it.

To resume : i think it's great to use Headphone + Monitors but i couldn't work with headphones only or at least, you should get an opened one to get this "air" feeling.

Think to use cross feed by SPL or 112dB Redline Monitor if you work only with headphone. It allows to inject a bit of the R signal into your Left ear and vice versa with some little delay to simulate the stereo phase shifts when listening to monitors : less bad surprises.

My 2 cents, i'm not pro.

Correct me and spank me if i said bullshit

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with producing on headphones, I even mix and master on headphones alot of the time and sometimes even prefer it over doing so on my monitors. Sometimes you don't have a choice but to work on headphones for whatever reason.

The trick with headphones is that you need calibrate your ears, alot. Listen to alot of professionally released music on the headphones and get to know how things sound like. Here's something I like to do to calibrate my ears too.
1- Import a favorite song of yours into your DAW
2- Put a spectrum analyzer on it (Voxengo SPAN)
3- Listen to the song while watching the analyzer and see where things are in terms of frequencies and stuff like that.
4- Put an EQ on the track, then sweep around with wide bell shaped boost with the EQ and listen to how different frequencies sound like.

Ear training is so important even without using headphones, but it's even more important when you are using them. Use reference songs and they'll get you to where you need to be when you're trying to get your music to sound balanced on headphones. Used open or semi-open headphones since closed back headphones overhype the low frequencies and dampen the highs.

Probably the best choice of headphones for their price range. Go for them if you have the money.

So bottom line is yes you can do everything on headphones, but calibrate your ears, listen to reference songs, and take a break every 45 minutes to an hour to avoid ear fatigue.

 

I only ever hear good things about Sennheiser HD 650 cans, give them a chance. *yes*

I use akg 701s but they took a while to burn in.. I ran pink noise through them for a week solid to open them up a bit and it made a massive difference, took all the harshness away from the top end they had out the box and the mids opened right up. After 1 year I'd say they're fine now but they do take a long long time to settle to get the best out of them.

You backed the right horse, slow and steady wins the race

 

You could also try beyerdinamic's Virtual Studio.
It's a speaker simulation, which can be useful sometimes.

 

my headphone mixing ( from last september)



good, good, gr8!