Hi there,

My colleague is going through the process of spec'ing a new PC build. This will serve as a dedicated audio workstation. His DAW of choice is Ableton 11 (he is slowly migrating to 12).

We were discussing CPU benchmarks, comparing an i7-14700K, Ryzen 9 7900 & 7900X.
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compar...700K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-9-7900-vs-AMD-Ryzen-9-7900X

There is the age old discussion of CPU clock speed vs. core count.

Interpreting the information linked above, does the single core clock speed of the 7900X equate to real benefits in his application (also taking into account the core/thread count discrepancies vs the i7)?

I am struggling to quantify the benchmark scores in real-world terms & application. To be honest, it's not something I've ever really understand, other than the 'get a decent processor speed with a decent core count'

Either CPU would be a stellar choice, but as always, I appreciate the knowledge! Thanks all.

Cheers,
BuckyBucky (& his colleague).

 

Take a look at this
https://www.scan.co.uk/info/proaudio/presszone/intel-14th-gen

 

it's not just about latency,
RAM latency also matters,
SSD latency also matters,
for a killer audio workstation, also be aware of PCIe lanes distribution from CPU (and chipset) when using NVME/M.2 SSDs,

single-core performance still matters most (and most noticeable to user), but Intel has already reached limits pushing power a bit too far, making very power hungry cpus and with high heat output (means, higher noise of coolers),
multi-core performance is about frequency consistency, and also preferably disabling threads,
major difference between Intel and AMD nowadays is, Intel uses uneven core architecture (P cores and "crippled" E cores) which is no good for audio work, and not all DAWs are even able to properly allocate that (and you basically need Windows 11 too),

as you say, either choice is stellar, therefore I'd look at motherboard and cooler options, and compare entire platform "package",
wouldn't be ashamed to pick cheaper, better value build,

last but not least, both Intel and AMD will launch new CPUs, Intel 15th gen will have new socket for sure (so no upgrade paths from 14th gen) while AMD's Zen 5 will likely stay on current AM5 socket (maybe add new chipsets with some features)

 

This is a great reference! Thank you

 

This is awesome information, thank you for taking the time to add this insight.

I'd welcome any CPU/mobo combo's you would recommend? I'll be sure to pass this on for his reference. My colleague is happy to run with Windows 11 Pro as his o/s.

 

Always pay attention to SINGLE CORE BENCHMARK.

 

Thank you for this info Piszpunta.

With that in mind, assuming the cooling is adequate etc & running at 100%, the i7 would be comparable to the 7900X but have the advantage of running at considerable less power & having more cores (although E & P).

Interesting when broken down like that.

 

I'm not able to answer your question directly. But...

I have multiple computers (most of them bought in last two years). In real world, in many cases an i5 turns to be faster than an i7 from similar generation. Why? Because people usually pay attention to CPU total (=multi core) efficiency, whilst many apps don't take advantange off having more than one core.

Real world example: My computer "A" is over 4x faster than my computer "B" (if we trust benchmarks). But for many demanding tasks (like e.g. packing large files using WinRAR) it is only 2x faster. That's because WinRAR can only utilize one core. Yes, computer "A" can run more tasks simultaneously, but WinRAR will not run 4x faster, as one could assume looking at popular benchmarks.

Same with some VST plugins. If you plan to run demanding synths like e.g. OSirus, it's better to have a CPU which has less cores, but each of them slightly faster, than to have a CPU with more cores, but each of them filling up quicker (even if the total CPU efficiency seems higher).

A couple of years ago I bought two nearly idenftical laptops - the only difference was the installed CPU (both from the same generation). Guess what? In Reaper, WinRAR etc. the i3 turned to be a bit faster than the i5.

 

AMD Ryzen 7900X + ASUS ProArt X670E-Creator WiFi would be the ultimate choice, I wouldn't go higher than that

 

This is a really helpful thread: https://gearspace.com/board/music-c...today-we-build-our-studio-pc-quot-thread.html
I built my PC based on a lot of advice i got in there.
I ended up choosing AMD based on my research.
There's a guy in there in called Pictus, his knowledge in particular was very useful.
Intels run hotter and require more cooling, which means more fan noise. AMD can get more power at lower temperatures relative to Intel.
Very happy with my 7950x, it's super snappy. But probably overkill for audio. But i intend to have this PC for the next 7-8 years so i was okay with the overkill for the sake of future-proofing.

That said, CPU's are very powerful these days and for audio you can't go wrong with either AMD or Intel.
People always talk about clockspeed, but IPS (instructions per second) is really the thing that will dictate how fast it is. Only problem is IPS is difficult to measure. But the new generations are really good now.

 

Great thread, thank you for the reference. Mega-thread, I saw an interesting Windows tweak list linked in there by Pictus too.

The power required to maximize the chip's potential (in turn the heat generated & cooling required) is a very interesting factor.

My colleague is in a similar spot, he'd prefer to futureproof his build as best he can (within reason). Ryzen 9s may be a good choice in that regard, particularly taking into account the power considerations.

 

You really don't have to understand benchmarks that don't apply to audio apps. Scientific apps workloads or video ones or games etc. Some may apply to audio apps, most won't. As posted early on the thread, Scan UK is a reputable pc builder company, specializing in audio and video/3d workstations, their synthetic benchmark is second to none atm but since it is synthetic you should look at just the audio portion of it.
So, Intel cpus have become the equivalent of a small heater. If you live near the Poles you may consider one lol. The problem with Intel is they haven't been able to move forward with their manufacturing process (lithography) for ages, so they physically enlarged the size of the cpu and borrowing from Arm cpus made a hybrid cpu with performance (should read "normal") and efficiency (should read "cut down on clock and instructions set support") cores to compete with AMD. As @tzzsmk pointed out, this Intel architecture doesn't behave well with audio apps in general plus you need Win11 and a really expensive cooler for i9 and i dare say even a for an i7. I personally found that disabling the efficiency cores, made the 12900k, 13900k and 14900k (which are all essentially the same cpu) perform better in audio ws with less heat output and no apparent impact on performance. Anyway atm, i am not aware of any audio app that takes advantage of the efficiency cores. (And this is a fact for Apple's efficiency cores as well but that's another story). Also, Intel's upcoming cpu gen will need a new motherboard, which means no upgrade path here, you will be stuck with what you got.
On the other end, AMD's platform can be slightly more expensive when you factor in the mobo cost and strict DDR5 use. With Intel you have a choice of DDR4 and DDR5. To me though, it's a no brainer, since AMD's current line up will support their upcoming next gen cpu, so future upgrade is possible. Plus their Ryzen 7000 series cpus are already much more efficient than Intel's and you can cut the cost a bit with a mid price cooler for the 12core 7900X. Arctic's AIOs work great and won't break the bank. As pointed out by tzzmsk, the ASUS ProArt X670E-Creator WiFi is a great choice as its USB4 is Thunderbolt compatible as well, so this broadens the options of audio interfaces and general connectivity further more. Plus the particular mobo is much cheaper now.
Lastly, all new Ryzen 9000 series is reportedly launching next month with availability made possible in July, much sooner than those who dwell in pc builds thought. So probably you guys better wait for it. For the cost conscious, this probably means the 7000 series will soon drop in price as well. Will this be a checkmate move for AMD? Perhaps, but Intel is a behemoth in the global pc world and fanboys will keep investing in a dead platform even if their pcs become a furnace alternative haha.
Cheers

 

Last edited: May 25, 2024

Oversimplified and with many asterisks, while working inside a DAW that is reasonably well optimised:

Master Bus: has to wait for every other track to finish. 85% single core.
Tracks without sends/receives: 85% multi core.

Random DAW tasks like handling keyboard input, dragging stuff around: 70% single core.
Random background OS tasks like waiting for notifications: 70% multi core.

 

Always on Intel CPUs but after i read that the power consumption is almost double than AMDs i wont buy again ( i also build a new PC ) . Bill the " philanthropist " and " Ecologist " Gates makes the most power hungry CPUs in order to .... save the Planet ( save his pockets ) ..................... I look at 7950x3D instead of 14900 .

 

Last edited: May 25, 2024

Hello friends,
I need new hardware. My i5-3570k just can't do it anymore ^^

I did some reading today. The AMD R9 7900x3D and the Intel i7-13700k stuck with me. Both are very powerful processors.

I mainly make electronic music and use VST plugins and effects. Above all, use Ostirus and common EDM VSTs like Serum. I also now have the UAD Native plugins. Everything together can require CPU power.

What do you guys think about the 7900x3D? Do you think that technology is usable for the DAWs and Plugins?
The L3 Cache is super much.

I also want to install my Hackintosh again together with my RX580 GPU

Components would be:
AMD 7900x3D
Asus TUF Gaming 650 Plus: https://www.asus.com/de/motherboards-components/motherboards/tuf-gaming/tuf-gaming-b650-plus/
16GB DDR5 Ram
m2 SSDs

The i7-13700k sucks much more Watt and is older. I don´t know if the Plugins can handle that effeciency Core bla from Intel.
But i read many articles how to limit the Watt usage of this beast ^^

Or do you guys think thats too much?
My old i5 made now over 10 years with me.
My new gear should run also that long

I also read this article:
https://www.scan.co.uk/info/proaudio/presszone/intel-14th-gen

The 7900x3D is super far away from the best CPUs. But i can´t interpret this comparison so well.

I´m happy to get some feedback from you guys

 

My personal experience, I went from a i7-4790k to a 3900x and performance in DAW was marginally better. I found more than half of the threads are being minimally taxed.
Audio workload is not very suitable for high core counts. Get the highest single core performance + 8 core 8 thread is imho the sweet spot.

The major performance gain I did see was that I could run photoshop and youtube while rendering a large session in my DAW as I had literal full cores free for them.

 

If one is familiar with live 11, Then V12 isnt something that should be tip toe.d into, Just Jump in its So much better than 11

Its got many many hidden gems

Although i dont ever use my pc for youtube or anything else for that matter, i wouldnt dream of being online whilst programming

Some say that it has no realworld performance impact, and on a mediocre build thats simply not true

 

yea I personally think both 7900x3D and 13700K are overkill, especially when you're still relatively okay with 3570K

I doubt it makes any noticeable difference for DAWs and audio work, what's important is, not all cores get this 3D cache, and also those "better" cores are sooner bottlenecked by temperature limits I think....which results in bit uneven performance

hackintosh can't handle performance+efficiency cores - either you get all cores at "efficient" performance only, or you disable all efficient cores being left with only 8 performance cores...not ideal for the price imo,
and AMD cpus won't be ever fully supported, if you want a Mac then I'm afraid you gotta get a real Mac with Apple Silicon,

anyway,
you didn't write what kind of DAW and plugins you use, what audio interface, what's limiting you on your current PC....
I'm pretty sure you can for ex. run Windows 11 just fine as of today,

new AMD and Intel cpus are just around the corner, so if you're not in hurry, I'd wait for next gen,
and if you need a new PC now, I'd definitely get at least 32GB RAM and ideally mobo with more than two M.2 NVME slots for a bit of futureproofing

just for reference, I'm still using my almost 10 years old PC with i7-5820K, 32GB ram and GTX1080Ti and RME HDSPe AIO with latest Windows 11 no issues - sure I keep an eye on what's new and cool on market right now (damn I love those ASUS ProArt X670E-Creator and Z790-Creator motherboard designs) but I can't justify going all-new build just yet (in fact my previous PC with i7-3770K, 16GB ram and GTX980Ti with Windows 10 has no issues either)

 

Thank you guys for the detailled feedback.
Yes you´re right.
Didn´t wrote which DAWs i use:
ALL ^^
i rly love to try out Things.
So the last years i tried out FL, Cubase, Ableton, Logic.
they have all their nice own workflow and creative tools.

My recent projects are in FL now.
And the CPU is completly at the limit ^^

Thank you for the hint with the 8 cores. I think you´re right.
Found 2 Super interesting Theads, where the problematic of the 12 Cores are described.
Because The 12 Cores are spliited in 2x 6 Cores which causes Latency.

https://audiosex.pro/threads/which-amd-cpu-for-daw-pc-5800x-5900x-5800x3d.64590/page-4
Last Entry from Lord Shader

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/9052...-solved-it-splits-cpu-cores-evenly/index.html

So i really need to focus on CPUs with the highest Base mhz per Core and that the Cores are on ONE Chip

 

exactly - https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html
and as you can see, Apple's ARM architecture is rather impressive in that regard, and Intel tries to catch up with wild power draw,
seeing actual values though, AMD isn't that far behind, especially 7700X is a good value imo and 7800X3D if you want play games