Current understanding/thinking/options 29/05/2024: http://audiosex.pro/threads/looking...cy-and-backup-advice.75557/page-2#post-777742

I'm about to purchase the QNAP TR-004 external DAS/NNS expansion with hardware RAID controller, but never used one before so have a general question about them.

The device has multiple RAID modes and JBOD and uses dip switches on the device to determine the mode.

If I use in my current Windows 11 OS, assign a drive letter and name, e.g. "X:\DAS", and transfer content to it, can I then simply eject/unplug from that OS and then attach to another computer. Such as my laptop, and have it working exactly the same (after obviously assigning same drive letter on other computer too)? I assume the answer also applies to when I reformat my Windows 11 OS machine to start afresh?

I'm assuming the answer is yes, it will work on any computer it's connected to in the same way due to it hardware RAID controller, but as I've never use I just wanted to sense check with some who will know better and get confirmation first

 

Last edited: May 29, 2024

Anyone? Hoping to pull the plug on a purchase imminently, so any informed advice would be appreciated

 

For any computer you plug it into it's just an external disk drive (or a network drive) there's no difference, and any of its internal RAID modes don't matter for the comp you plug it into.

 

There are literally millions of them working right now in professional settings. So yes, they work.

 

Download the manual and read it before you buy it. most external raids are actually a dedicated linux computer that manages the drives and present it to the o/s

Hard drives of themselves have no innate ability to act as a raid, they are single entities that cannot understand a raid. A raid controller talks to all the raid devices and has intelligence in that it knows how to stripe data to different drives or stripe the same data to many drives for redundancy.

When a raid controller is housed in a pc, you get a preboot menu, by pressing a key sequence like CTL-A and it will open a small command line interface where you can see how many drives are attached, how they are being used, etc. The raid controller is like a mini computer that only understands hard drives and how to make them work together.

Once you have it setup and running and leave that screen, the o/s (windows in this case) will only report it as a single drive - a logical volume is what this is referred in defference to a Physical Volume which is a discrete device - ie a single hard drive - which can be one or many logical volumes hence the alphabet letters windows uses to reference hard drives.

when the drives and controller are housed in a box with a power supply and some fans, a small os is necessary to run and maintain the drives,maintain cooling and fan speeds, monitor drive health etc.

This is usually a very compact linux kernel and some drivers or perhaps a realtime o/s like QNX - but something has to be the brain that keeps everything in order and presents itself to the host operating system as a single logical volume. ie "Drive F:"

Read the manual, all will be explained...

 

I shall assume that this answer to a different question to the one that was asked is due to something being lost in translation....

 

I have a 4 Bay Thunderbolt 3 Samsung Pro Set Up .

 

Is that the OWC enclosure?

What drives do you have in there? Isn't Thunderbolt excessive for regular 3.5" HDDs, and they won't even exceed the USB 3.2 Gen 1 protocol will they? Unless you've house it with SSDs/NVMEs obviously.

 

the buss you use to connect your external device to your computer will be the limiter or controller of the maximum data rate, irregardless of your hard drives transfer rate. so usb2, usb2 rate, usb3, usb3 rate etc...

 

you'll find a lot more information at this site, they built the thing.

https://www.qnap.com/en/download?model=tr-004&category=firmware

https://download.qnap.com/Technical...nal RAID Device Software User Guide-05-en.pdf

 

This is wrong and the reason for my question. Thunderbolt is 22Gbps for data transfer. However, SATAIII 3.5" inch drives are 600MB/s data transfer rate. So, even if 4 drives are working together to speed up read/write rates, best case for a 4 bay is 4 x 600MB/s = 2.4Gbps, which doesn't even reach USB 3's 5Gbps data transfer speed. Therefore, if housing 4 x SATAIII 3.5" drives, Thunderbolt won't make any difference sto transfer rates as the drives cannot go beyond their physical limitation. Therefore, it is not the bus speed that dictates speed, but the drives you use. This is why I was asking, and why I mentioned if using SSDs/NVMEs then it makes sense, but not if using standard SATAIII 3.5" drives. This is why QNAP are using only USB3.2 for the TR-004, as even that exceeds the read/write of standard 3.5" SATAIII drives.

 

actually its a combination of the 2 limits. where the buss exceeds the drive transfer rate, the drives are the limiter,
where the drives exceed the buss transfer rate, the buss is the limiter.
and we haven't even brought into consideration the overhead that the controller will add as it must figure out what data goes where and when.

I think you should be able to figure this out, and also figure out that the theoritical limits are just that theoritical, and will not reached in real life. You will have to deal with thermal issues, bus contention and cpu contention, you real life data rate will be less than whatever published numbers you use to make your decisions.

Read the manual. ask questions of the QNAP TR-004 support on their site, they have been answering these questions for years for corporate customers, they are your best 1st resource. not randos on a a music web site...

 

I'm not asking anything about transfer rates. You mentioned that and I responded to your comments.

My question was just about how RAID enclosures work with regard to can they be detached and attached on demand to various computers without issue.....which many a rando on the Internet will know and get me the answer quicker than waiting for a week for QNAP support to answer.

 

RTFM

 

Take the time to research storage tech & options to maximize your overall experience for time & funds spent. RAID, NAS, which is a better fit for you?

I would humbly suggest that you pass on the TR-004 fir these reasons:
1 x USB 3.0 Type-C for the TR-004 vs x USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10 Gbps) Type-C for the TR-002
5 year old product. Most recent firmware 1.2.02022-11-01 (see list here)
No hot-plugging. You want an external unit with dual network or single network & an external router
Newer, more up-to-date options available in the same price range.

If you have further need for information about choices & usage, a good source is the Leve1Tech Forums.

Level1Techs YouTube playlists:
RAID - https://www.youtube.com/@Level1Techs/search?query=RAID
NAS - https://www.youtube.com/@Level1Techs/search?query=NAS

 

Will your RAID stay connected to power while connecting to a different computer?
Then its firmware would ideally not shut down the drives after disconnecting from the first computer and leave it up to the RAID's file system and the connected OS to handle drive (i.e. partition) mounting and unmounting.

 

Got any recommendations for the newer and more up to date DAS options?

The TR-002 is only 2 bay and therefore limits capacity significantly. My plan was to house the TR-004 with 4 x 16TB+ drives (all 4 will obviously be identical brand and capacity, be it 6, 18, 20, or 22TB), of which I would use about 10TB now and the remainder to be the expansion for the rest of my life, menaibg no future upgrade costs for a local RAID redundancy storage solution.

The TR-002 would limit capacity, especially when using RAID. Also, the TR-004 data transfer rate wouldnt even be reached by 4 x SATAIII 3.5" drives as I understand it, meaning rhe additional bus transfer rate of the TR-002 is a waste unless house with SSDs or NVMEs, which then limits the capacity even further.

 

Not really. I am running Windows 10 on a Lenovo workstation that can be configured as needed. A normal computer, server or hybrid.

Buying a NAS is somewhat of a personal choice based on:

• need to expand in the future or not
• availability of products in your region
• included OS, Apps
• possibility to run other OS variants
• hardware network features
• warranty (limited or full & how long)
• HDD, SSD only or hybrid
• idle & full state power usage
• CPU & memory
• PCIe expansion slot(s) for add in cards (NIC, SSD card, multi SSD card w/RAID, bifurcation options, high speed USB3)

Just don't rush into anything. A good choice will last many years.

 

I just put truenas on my old i5, it's working pretty good, wired and wireless, multiple computers, though I'm going to move on to unRAID. Only sad thing is that I have pcie->8xsata extender, which I simply cannot get it to work.

 

I don’t want a NAS. Backblaze includes unlimited cloud backup storage for a DAS, but not for a NAS. Therefore, this is one of the main reasons I am wanting a DAS and not a NAS, so I can then also get cheap cloud backup via Backblaze too.