I know this sounds kind of stupid and people usually take binary stances like "I'd never work for free, my time always has value" or "You have to do work for free to attract clients and be able to complete nowadays", but I'm kind of in a weird situation with doing work for friends.

I lost most of my clients when I moved back to my home state. Even though all of my mastering work can be done remotely, I kind of disconnected from the people I once worked with (I also left all social media except YouTube).

The few clients I have now are friends, and even though my work is better than it used to be, I find myself always lowering my rates as they continue to send me work. Is that normal? Obviously this work is not my main source of income.

I know they don't make a lot of money and I'm afraid of losing them as clients, so I'm willing to work for less. That combined with the existing relationships we have. I continue to undervalue myself.

I'd be curious to know if anyone is in a similar situation. Or maybe you have advice/experiences to share.

Thanks.

 

sell your friends

 

As you get better and busier, your rates should increase. Unless you are getting something else of value from them like free rent, food, or babysitting then you are music businessing wrong and hobbying it up straight to the ominous cliffs of burnout hell and musical impotency.

Real friends don't let friends lower their rates.

 

If they are your friends then usually they should pay to support you. It's already tough enough to survive in this industry. For me it's typical that my clients are my friends as well. But both can/should exist.
At least that's my point of view. Doing it free devalues your profession and people will wonder why you charge them the next time.
Your time and effort should be worth something. If you have no experience or you are not on a pro level than it's different and if need work or have no portfolio than as well. My personal experience with lowering prices is that i'd rather have less good clients than a lot with the same income. Because it takes always energy and I'd rather have free time and enjoy life or do art to gain some inspiration.

If someone is serious about his/her music than paying is also included.

I do stuff free from time to time or I do pay what you can to support people.

 

God damn that's a great idea. Although things have slowed down quite a bit since Epstein "killed himself".

 

There's a different perspective to things.

Don't let your ego stand in the way of well-being of the ones you care for. Simultaneously, don't let their ego compromise your well-being.
If you manage to do this (it seems that you do, from the description) - everything's fine.

"I know I should increase my rates" - why, cause bobert owsinski told you so? You "should" jack shit, every situation is unique, and if you *feel* like lower rate is appropriate - then it's your call to make.

If you feel like you're being exploited - that's also your call to make. If you feel like you don't have enough to cover your expenses - talk about it. But if you feel like you're entitled to more money - welp ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In the end, and we will all be there, there's nothing more important than people and fulfilling relations.
You would not lay on your deathbed and think "Man I should've charged them more back then".

 

Last edited: Apr 2, 2024

Interesting. I've gotten better, but not busier. I also don't advertise my services in any serious manner. The guy who sends me the most work even told me he was gonna master his own stuff (which I fully supported and gave him detailed advice) and then came back to me about 2 months later saying he wanted me to do it. WTF haha.

I already lowered my rate from $20 to $10 a track for him but I honestly don't want to do any revisions for him at all at that price point. The revisions are usually him sending an updated mix. There were a few times he sent me a track, I mastered it, then he sent 8 NEW MIX REVISIONS. I eventually told him to stop doing that.

"hobbying it up straight to the ominous cliffs of burnout hell and musical impotency."

Fuck that hits home pretty hard. Couldn't agree more.

 

That is unless your relations go sour. Then there might be some regrets.
But first, this is not a default outcome, and second, it still has nothing to do with all this hubristic bullshit anyways, as the proper rate is justified by their improper actions.

 

A lot to unpack with what you wrote but I understand your perspective.

I'd rather have more clients for security and to build my portfolio. I probably have about 30-50 tracks in my portfolio but if it's my old mastering work, or I get a shitty mix, those projects are not good portfolio material.

Ironically my friend who is a much worse producer (but a better instrumentalist) wants to pay me quite a bit to mix and master his work, but his style is pretty out there and I would need to do hours and hours or cleanup work just to get a product I'd be even reasonably willing to show to others.

I told him to hire a really good mix engineer on Fiverr (around $1000 a track range) so he can get perspective of what is possible with his productions. I'd master his stuff for free any day tho as he's treated me extremely well over the years. Probably the only person I'd never need to charge.

The guy who sends me the most work is the guy I already halved my prices for. Probably no turning back there. But he's also sent me like 60 tracks in the past 2 years (he's kind of an animal). And of course he's a friend.

I am definitely not a beginner, definitely not Michael Brauer tho. I am a solid mastering engineer, mid mix engineer. Very good for my price.

 

That's a tough one. Actual friends do not ask for free favor, which they use to make money.
(if they respect your work). Are you sure they don't use you? Money makes people deceptive. Clients, "collabs" and co-workers are not friends. Maybe find a middle ground and cut them in on a 50/50 basis or something (depending what you do).

 

I compromise. They get a reduced price.

 

I completely agree with everything you said and how each situation is unique and complex.

That's the push/pull dynamic with personal relationships tying into your work as well as how much ego and confidence you have.

It's so much more difficult with friends. More value to the experience though.

My ego is in check and has been since I quit smoking weed constantly, snapped back into reality and realized I wasn't shit in the grand scheme of things.

My large ego back then got me a lot more work a while back tho. Turns out if you think you're great, and tell people you're great, most of them blindly accept it (well maybe until you deliver a shitty product to them haha).

 

Last edited: Apr 2, 2024

I like it. Simple and straight to the point. I think all votes have been that people reduce prices for friends and family. That has given me a lot of perspective.

I genuinely wonder how many people on here make any money at all with their audio work. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones.

 

That's fair. That's about where I'm at. 50% price for friends and family.

I can't really get mad at people who want reduced rates either. I'm a bargain hunter myself

 

i'm not a professional engineer so i don't do any work for my friends.
buuuut if i was i wouldnt charge full price. wouldn't do it for free either.

 

0:44

 

Would one of your friends regularly paint your apartment for the same amount of money and time on the same level?

 

I came in here to say exactly this: if your friends/family would be happy to come and clean your apartment for free or for the kind of money you charge them, then I'd be happy to work for them on the same basis.

All too often though, people seem to want YOU to work for free, but you wouldn't dream of asking them to utilize their skills/talents for nothing. I'd only work for friends on an exchange basis. I'll spend 2 hours on their mix if they'll spend 2 hours cleaning my bathroom/washing my car/whatever else needs doing that I'm not especially skilled at.

Remember, the time you spend on somebody else's project is time you take away from your own. It's only fair that somebody should compensate you for that time -- even if they aren't in a position to do it financially.

 

For free for one friend only. Just one. Rest, I charge full price. Business is business.

 

I may charge F & F less, but I still charge them. My time is worth something to me, no matter who I'm doing the work for.