What is really going on here is the question.. An argument between two, "professionals".

A - “Listen man, the MDWEQ6 is the hardest hitting ITB EQ I’ve ever heard, on kicks, basses & drums it’s simply unbelievable. Wonderful cuts also, effortless; there is no substitute and the new Softtube 1:1 Weiss is a close 2nd and arguably better for classical instruments and/or busses & M/S mastering duties. Together, they're all you need for transparent/surgical.”

B - “^ You’re crazy bro, the MDWEQ6 isn’t a Transient Designer, you’re just imagining things. It’s all in your head. I don’t hear a difference in "tRanSiEnt hAnDLinG" between MDWEQ6 and Crave or Pro Q 3, get a grip.”

A - “No, I’m not “imagining things” or "crazy", I’ve been a professional mastering engineer since 1989 and did many platinum & gold masters at Criteria in Miami back in the day and worked with seasoned professionals over a 3 decade career, I’m telling you there’s a difference between Weiss/MDWEQ6 and everything else, you just can’t hear it.”

B - “I don’t care who you worked with dude, or if you’ve sold a bazillion records, all non-character minimum phase digital EQs are exactly the same and anyone claiming there’s a difference between MDWEQ6/Weiss being superior to all other transparent digital EQs is just imagining things and is totally clueless.”


Now see, here the main problem I have with all of this.. These two people arguing absolutely believe that they are both right and that the other person is dead wrong.. So is it that the seasoned mastering engineer is truly imagining things and/or biased? Or is it that the person calling him out and claiming there’s no difference between Weiss/MDWEQ6 and ProQ3/Crave etc just can’t hear a difference themselves? (bad room?) So they’re running around telling everyone that anyone who claims they can hear a difference is "crazy and just hearing things"? All humans don’t hear exactly the same.. so is this whats leading to these arguments that never seem to get resolved on forums and answered with everyone just giving up, grunting and walking off? Is there a perceptible difference that some people who are aspiring to be professional engineers just simply cannot hear like being partially colorblind without knowing it? and thats why they can't hear a difference in minute details that are totally not important for a consumer's ears, but are critical to a mastering engineers?

 

Measurements and understanding audio fundamentals eliminates all of the guessing work in this regard.

 

Usually, in such cases, apart from pure measurements, I match their settings as good as possible, make a phase inversion and a double blind test. After that, I know all I need to know and no one can sell me shit as gold.

 

If you're not AB testing or taking measurements you're just wasting your time engaging in petty argument that will lead to nowhere.

 

It's akin to comparing device schematics to the devices themselves, as if they were identical. All measurements are one-sided and confined to specific parameters, meaning they operate within a limited domain. When we listen, we experience a synchronous, synthetic interplay of all elements that constitute our perception of sound. Thus, we possess far more relevant information than any measuring device.
When we select an instrument, we discern differences between two supposedly 'identical' instruments based on subtle nuances in timbre and transient response, etc. which may elude measuring devices. Additionally, we possess the ability to localize sound sources in space, a feature not replicated by such devices. While these instruments may accurately capture certain sound properties, they overlook the synergistic effect of spatial information, but furthermore, they fail to encompass the myriad psychoacoustic phenomena. Our perception extends beyond merely detecting raw sounds; within our neural network, we intricately refine them, revealing nuances that surpass the capabilities of any measuring device. This distinction can be likened to the difference between a 2D and 3D picture.

 

aka My Hearing Is All Fucked Up

 

Maybe showing some respect to older people would be appropriate.

 

As for science, exactitude, and deep convictions in the power of charts... Here's a light-hearted look at that problem.

 

Not when they try to weaponize their age.

 

Who me?
People often mistake me for an adult because of my age

 

I wouldn't underestimate the insatiable allure of a debate even in the face of irrefutable evidence...this lies at the core of human nature for many and seems to drive a lot of online social interaction.

 

Dismissing people solely based on the category they belong to is an unacceptable weapon in and of itself.

 

Complete BS.

 

I'm kinda old and kinda deaf and didn't take any offense whatsoever to what was said. Now get off'uv my lawn, kid!

 

All due respect, I don't get why all people get so anal about what one EQ does and the other doesn't. It's like soccer hooliganism. I just don't get it. The only winners are plugin makers. That's why I love these new-gen plugins: The stupid talk gets resolved by stupid AI and I focus more on making that EQ'ed track fit my mix and keep my client (who doesn't care about different EQs) happy.

EDIT: I know the oxymoron in my claim: In making my EQ'ed track fit, I'm actually messing with EQ, which leads to intellectualize my EQ moves. So who's first, the chicken or the egg. I know, still crap. I just work as little as possible for the max pay and it's panning out for me.

 

Last edited: Mar 22, 2024

This. And it happens with a lot more topics.

 

definitely not. Even if there are so many of them made that they could only be given away for free, we still win because that pushes programmers to do better work making better products.

I started using Sonnox Claro just yesterday, so I have a very fresh reminder of this. I think it might boot Kirchhoff out as my secondary to pro-q3., but if not my point remains the same. More EQ's, no problem.

 

You got a point there. I'm not one to bother with tweaking digital knobs and stuff, but it's those who do and nerd out on these things that push the envelope. Still, however I complain, it's all good read. It's been good read for the last 12+ years for me.

 

Oh I know. But really, the only way they ever come out a winner is if I buy a product and it's not worth what I paid for it. I think it's some dev's shady marketing tactics that have got to go. If every time I ever read about "the best and only plugin you will ever need for.." was true, I would have about 8 plugins.

 

That's the thing. I'm trying to get to 8 plugins, but going the other direction. I'm ignoring every maker who claims to have "the only plugin you'll ever need" or "the best emulation ever". I'm trying to keep my head down to the plugins I constantly go back to. I don't "try" new plugins anymore. My collector's mind messes up with my producer/engineer's mind, and it helps with GAS. However, one discovers some stuff that enters our sight and the cycle begins. I've just bought Xvox by Nuro Audio, and it meets my criterion of less effort, more productivity. Playing with plugins is no fun for me anymore. Maybe I'm getting mentally old.