For a start - @MMJ2024 and I had our differences in the past... So far... we have managed to avoid unnecessary squabbles. Instead of automatically taking a stance of crapping on MMJ, why not ask? ...for example, "This does not look right to me because(reason)...could you please explain? I am not understanding what you are trying to get across?"
- Are you FOSTER? It is certainly looking like it.

Documented scale relationship - As MMJ has mentioned very early on, the notes in a Cmajor scale = C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C.
IF you understood the upper extensions, you would automatically know the D is the 2nd and the 9th up the octave, F is the 4th and the 11th up the octave, and A is the 6th and the 13th up the octave. So a #11 in the key of C in upper extension = F#. In the lower half it is called a flattened 5th or diminished 5th. A sharpened 5th is G# and in the upper octave it is a flattened 13th. same principles with the 2nd(9th).

Therefore a D7 = D,F#,A,C so a D7/Cmaj7 = Cmaj13#11 which is C,E,G,B,D,F#,A. It's not how I would get it across but MMJ is not wrong in this chord.
IF and only IF I was to suggest anything it would be that the natural 5th (G) does not always need to be in the chord because it points back to the tonic of the chord, but that is semantics.
FOSTER - if you are looking at it purely for a KEY center, then perhaps you are seeing G. But that is only relevant if you are not starting in C and calling the Cmaj13#11 the Lydian. Putting a natural F on a Cmajor chord indicates a suspension and while valid in the C major scale, it is not a great sound with Cmajor7 because the F an octave higher is a minor 9th away from the E(maj3rd), and the F is a flattened fifth away from the maj7(B). Stravinsky did it successfully and it definitely can be done, but it is not the norm in 7-note voicings.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2024

Maybe this will end up being expensive for me, but I will say my word. Jazz music is entirely based on false assumptions from beginning to end.

 

FOSTER - you have said this same thing under more aliases than anyone here can remember. Yet not once have managed to substantiate this in pure musical terms.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but if you are going make sweeping statements without any basis rooted in documented fact and decades of knowledge on the subject, you get the same result. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. I am not feeding you anymore FOSTER.

P.S - The chords are also in Classical music, R&B, Funk, Fusion and even upmarket Pop tunes (Sting etc). NOT just jazz.
They are called polychords and tetrachords.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2024

another foster bites the dust....... just dont follow this thread foster....trolls are never welcome

 

The information in this thread has been used since hundreds of years ago .
This isn't a genre topic.
Jazz uses a certain rhythm and sounds etc.
All music uses tonal language functional harmony
Because 90% of all music that exists in public is functional harmony.
It is the basis for the other different languages that come after and everything you learn gets used in those other languages just in a different way .

You might not enjoy some particular extensions or voicings. That isn't relevant because nobody will choose what you play. The point is building on knowledge to do new things all the time with what you learned before .

Take Cmaj13#11.
C..E..G..B..D....F#.A
R .3...5 .7..9.#11.13..
Put that aside one moment.

Take Bmin BDF#
It is just a min triad and it dies all the things you know how to do with a min triad already.

Now play something you know that is Bmin .
Maybe Bmin pentatonic lick with an instrument.
Loop that .

Now take Amin7 ACEG or C6 CEGA

Make a bass part that spells A and C notes
Have a piano chord play Cmaj Triad riff .
And your melody plays Bmin

All the music adds up to be one name
Cmaj13#11.

The knowledge is incremental.
Everything you learn gets used in different ways

This is because Tonal harmony is a language like your spoken language.

Play everything in your style and rhythm etc.
Nobody talking about jazz here unless you like and play jazz then use that.

This is to help people not hurt them lol

 

Chord/scale is universal in all styles if desired by the person using them. When someone says "Oh that's a jazz chord" - I gave up replying..... Back to you.

 

Foster, this is not an "opinion" thread. Get outta here...

Guys, you can continue with this thread: Foster = Banned.

 

I count you among friends fine sir.

 

on that topic of intermediate music theory which continues to come up! (extensions) lol :D
this is cool video !
(pay attention to the very end part he palys too!
Songs that use 9th, 11th and 13th chords (youtube.com)

 

Last edited: Jan 7, 2024

brilliant!

 

You can truly see the Genius of Oscar Petersen in this. Almost a complete knowledge of almost every style of Piano.

 

a refresher for all the basics one needs to know to fully absorb the information component of this thread! have fun with it!

 

I know this will spark some conversation! lol :D

 

Last edited: Jan 15, 2024

Whoemever said that jazz was pretentious and convoluted was obviously given this diagram

 

Looks like one of those drawings they sent to outer space for aliens to somehow decipher

 

While I am confident that the nice pictures of a sailboat, mountain and house are designed to tell you it's a journey, it looks more like a mathematical physics diagram, yes.

 

The real hidden meaning of the diagram is Cookie Monster.

 

let's look at voice leading!

 

let's look at how to turn a chord symbol into something playable!