I read an article about PT and Ableton recently https://musicstrive.com/pro-tools-vs-ableton/ And there was a thing about faders. I wasn’t aware that it can be like that. What I understand PT has post-fader fx and Ableton pre-fader, what may not be a perfect idea for Abl. Is the switch pre-/post- fader switch equivalent of PT fader? What implications can it introduce? Can the gain staging be easier in PT for example? How about other DAWs? How about mixing desks?

 

I mean from what I can read from the article, his argument doesn't even make sense. I would bet he is a long time ProTools user desperately clinging on to anything to keep the allure that ProTools is best for real pros.

- Ok so what he is stating is that the MASTER fader (not all faders, only the master) in Ableton, comes after the fx you drop on the master channel. So in his case if he was to put a compressor on the Master channel, he can't then just use the Master fader to decide how much of the entire mix he is feeding INTO the compressor.

1. IDK why this would even matter tbh, this has never been an issue for me but if you were REALLY STUCK and had no other option you could just drop a Utility onto the master track as the first plugin, and use that to control the master channels volume BEFORE the compressor..

2. I don't put anything on my Master channel, except for utility type stuff like Span, Izotope Insight, etc...
**btw I think its funny this is the only argument he could come up with for why he thinks ProTools is still superior.. like is that it? because we can fix that for ya real quick there buddy**

Instead you should be using busses, for example in every project of mine I have by default 6 Busses created:
Drums,
Bass/low-end,
Instruments,
Vocals,
FX(like ear candy, random stuff)
MIX ---> this is essentially my master bus. all the other busses get sent to this bus, and this bus goes to the master channel.
***The Busses are actually just audio tracks that you route all your other tracks to***

So i divide the tracks to their respectives busses, and then those busses are routed by default to the MIX bus, which is routed by default to the master.

So now with the mix bus you completely negate his issue of post-fader master channel, because all of the plugins you put onto the mix bus are still going to be PRE-master bus fader.

Also with this sort of configuration you open up a lot of possibilities for different configurations, and I SWEAR TO GOD just putting tracks into busses like this has an immediate gluing effect that is hard to explain, but shit just starts hitting different.

I have been working on a new default template lately in Ableton, where I am using returns as busses (except for my mix bus for reasons i wont get into right now) and the reason im experimenting with this is because it looks SICK with all the bus faders right beside the master channel fader, so basically the right side of my Ableton is like a mix+master bus section, and the left section is all the tracks+groups.

Its a work in progress but if anyone is interested to see more let me know, id be happy to share what im doing!

 

Ok, from the page:

- 'the master bus fader comes after your plugins and not before.' Right, this is so problematic that this is the standard! PT is the exception here and honestly, I find PT's behaviour pretty weird because then you need to use the last plugin to determine the DAW's output level.

- 'to get a nice master level and not clip' Ozone is a pure digital pluggie means, it clips only at a level higher than 0dBFS and only if it's not working with floating point which almost all modern pluggies do. Any level higher than 0dBFS would trigger a comp or limiter, that's correct but at what levels is this guy working? The last time I had more than 0dBFS coming into the mainout was in err, I don't even remember.

- 'Protools does it right' Sorry, but that's a crystal clear

- 'having to lower ALL your tracks' Firstly, take care of your levels while mixing, noob. Secondly, ever heard of this mysterious, magical plugin that can level a signal and comes with basically every modern DAW?

I think this guy should get some fresh air more often.