Hi guys.

Now that I've joined AudioSexed album group and posted my first track on soundcloud I notice that some of the submissions have a really high volume level without sounding crushed, like Fuad and BoyLearnsArcane. When I tried to match that level for my export the meters went way into red and I couldn't avoid some heavy distortion no matter how I applied EQ, compression and limiters.

Since I'm gonna try to write and produce some more tracks from now on I'm feelin a bit curious about how this max level is achieved, especially since soundcloud converts all files to mp3.
I'm thinkin that there might be some mastering stuff goin on, that's one area that I never got into. Or is it just a matter of being smart from the start and choose the right number and type of sounds that will work together even when pushed a bit over the edge?

I know that I'm gonna have to read a lot of posts already done about this and spend much time testing out different tweaking and techniques, but it would be nice with just some basic pointers to get me started. Maybe the best thing for me is to not even think about this at all, but simply make the best mixes I can at 0 db and then send those files to Fuad for some final juice?
Any nice producing tips & advice welcome

 

Apply limiters and compression on individual tracks. Learn how to buss properly (you can achieve great sounding mixes and loudness by doing this). Learn compression. This is key. Taming your peaks on individual tracks will also help you achieve an overall louder mix. You don't want to go too far and destroy the transients so pay attention to what the compressor is doing to your signal. Parallel compression on drums will also help you get that "huge sound" that so many desire. Too many times people think that just slapping on a specific limiter or compressor will give them that "pro sound." I will say a good trick is to use a soft clipper (Check out T racks) before a limiter to yield an extra couple of DB's. One of my favorite mastering plugins is brainworks BX. Check Out this tutorial. Very useful for EDM mastering. Mastering EDM

 

DO NOT APPLY ANYTHING ! all the stuff is the JOB of the master guy !

while working on your track don't compare it with the hits you hear all over the internet, because it is professionally mastered,

the unmastred version does not sound as punchy as you're hearing it now, so be careful while working on the high zone,

and btw, try using eq, to clean you're synth, cymabls, crachs, every thing, export it on wav, and do not forget to put the master channel on -6db, or -75%

export, make a new project on ur daw, load the exported wav file, load some mastering vst on your channel master, sush as Tracks, iZotope, and before that put a mbc (Multi band compressor) try Fabfilter MB with the mastering factory presets, or C4 from waves, after then u put the Tracks or Izotope, try tweeking it, and don't forget the panning option on your mastering vst,

hope i could help !

sorry for my english

 

Yeah that's a huge topic and it's been talked about a lot here on the forums. Just do some searching for mastering, eq, compression etc, and you'll find tons of information on to get things to sound good. Everyone's goal is get the most depth, punch, clarity and loudness as possible with minimal distortion. It's not only about mastering. It's a complete approach to production, it's a mindset that you start with when you start a new song. This is what makes electronic music so difficult, where mixing and production have to be part of composition and arrangement. So to keep it short if there's one piece of advice I can give you is to remember that it's all about balance. Balance is the key to a good mix. Do not overcrowd the song, choose your sounds carefully, and do everything at the source. Also, here's another super big tip from my experience, low cutting is your best friend

 

Don't forget to start with proper gain staging

 

-6db on master channel is the best way !

 

That heavy distortion from going into the red is bad, avoid clipping at all costs. You should try to get as close to 0 db as possible. A simple way of doing this is by normalizing your track.
Mastering is just processing the master track. So don't forget that there is a lot that you can do before that to boost your volume. There will be so much reading and research involved that you may want to pull your hair out. Don't give up (This is applied physics after all). It is about practice as well. Sometimes you just try something and it works. So branch out and explore some different ways of going about making your tracks louder. Really I just wanted to say too, don't fall into the trap that lots and lots of compression is cool. This is how you can squash your sound. Compression is a great tool to use! A good rule of thumb to use with compression is; if you can hear it, then it is too much. You can use limiters and EQ to aid in boosting your loudness as well.

Fuad is right, it isn't only about mastering but has to be a complete approach. There are things that you can do to boost your sound in the mastering stage, it is just very easy during this stage of production to mess up a mix instead of improving it. I try and focus on going into the mastering stage of production with a solid mix. I try to keep all of my instruments in their own little place during the mixing of a track which in my experience is crucial for clarity later.
Good Luck with your mastering studies and on your musical journey!

 

Still, if you have a kick peaking at (-3) -9 and a snare peaking at (-5) -11 and just getting their uniformed sound down won't really balance things. It'll just give you more room to increase the overall gain. But the relation between the individual elements won't really change... Or, at least, it won't change as much as going back to the individual tracks.

Compression is relative. Getting close to 0 db is situational. Also, peaking at 0 db doesn't have to happen for the entirety of the track. Actually, it's all relative. Generally, I like me some ultra-compressed drums. I mean, I could compress up to 6-10 dbs of reduction and then turn the track gain (or make-up again) up or down. By doing that, you still have the "squashed" sound and you can still make it less or more present. Or just leave it compressed in a way that it sounds "pumping" or "dancing/breathing" (as an effect mostly). Of course, it won't sound the same but you can keep both from clipping. And, generally, I want to hear the compressor (depends if you're "correcting" or effecting). It's as much "gain" as it is space and how you fill the space (frequency information). For example, highs will not just crowd your "high-highs" (e.g. only hats) but also the top of your kick/snare, the air of your reverb... It's tricky.

Examples:
http://www.firedrive.com/share/F_792880C2C151E744

Note that higher velocity highs also mask the kick in a way...

The thing I could relate most to was the 'high frequencies' one (that doesn't mean I've not delved into my fair share of bass craziness!). You should be aware of their velocity/levels when mixing them down and calculate before-hand the amount of processing that may be needed during mastering. High-gain highs could become ear-piercing highs or prevent you from editing as much as you feel is needed for some other element. I've done that mistake a lot (especially in the beginning). I've had "masters" sound worse in parts than the mix, either due to too much boosting of individual elements that ended up over-compressed or frequency imbalance. Except if you manage to make it need minimal processing. Then you should be fine.

Another important thing is filtering. Also, choosing sounds (timbre, frequency, character, dynamic content - orchestration) and effects (effect parameters). Then, there's things like processing only the wet signal of the reverb, parallel compression and stuff like that.

In the end, if it's how you want it, nothing else matters.

Just sharing my limited experience... With sound, you never stop learning and discovering.

 

Thanks everybody for your input. Very much appreciated

Ain't that the truth. I started out way back in the late 80's, and the now famous loudness war was not a big thing then - or even the internets, LOL.
Then I was in a band for a long time and the focus was on writing, arranging and playin live instead of recording. But during those years I bought some multitrackers, mixers and FX and made a bunch of demos so I feel I eventually got a pretty good handle on mixing.
Then I moved into some other areas and it's only lately that I've started to get back into songwriting and producing. There's so much goin on with all the tech nowadays that I constantly feel like I'm one step behind

The reason why I got so curious about that level difference is that some of the ideas I have now are for pretty tough and aggressive songs, so even though I love dynamics and will def keep goin for that I'm thinkin those tracks could benefit from some extra power on any parts where the pedal goes to the metal.

BTW, Kaylix, I have a little surprise for you comin up in Our Music section in a couple of days

 

Proper gain-staging, proper mixing, proper mastering...

or just parallel/N.Y compress every single channel and then brickwall the master.

 

The master is way easier if you did the loudness work during mixing. For clarity sake, do this mixing stage once the track is fully done.
Export 3-12 stems.

On each track in that order :
Put some eq : if it's no bass or kick , hipass from 80-100Hz, do the eq of each stem (there shouldn't be some drastic value, most of this job will be done during sound design(if you work on electronic), lowpass it too.
Put a little of overdrive (if you want to be loud) , don't shoot for ACDC, we're talking about <1dB .
Put a compressor , don't let it pump (if you want a pumping track, do that at arrangement design stage)
Put some limiter (it shouldn't be taking out more than one or 2dB, and just blink very fast on big peak and you shouldn't hear it at all)

Bus by instrument according to your music style (in my case) :
DRUM (whole drum) - BASS - VOCAL - MIDRANGE STUFFS - VOICES
on the buss :
a bit more drive
a little bit of compression

You master VU-meter should be a lot more quiet, and the track shouldn't sound different, but you can take the master volume to -3 dB (you started at -6 , like advised above) : and still be in the green, and still be quite dynamic.

You'll get a loud and clean master in a wink : just add an hipass around 30Hz, a bit of compressor (1:2 slow attack, fast release), a bit of drive (no big value, 0.5dB or 1db of gain), limiter to taste, and it won't crush anything, it'll be radio-loud.

rules of thumb :
- overdrive are great at getting stuff loud without pushing volume, micro boost are great.
- EQing out useless freq is a key to a clearer mix, no freq boosting, take down the opposite freq instead.
- limit by stem to take little bits of attack everywhere, instead of lawn mowing you whole track
- if you need to eq boost/cut more than 0.7dB on master, you f'd up something at mixing stage, go back there.

Basically, I got a lot from that video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gwd1LEB7Jlw

His voice is annoying as hell, and he seems quite stupid and bragging, and his track isn't great.
It's still very good advices, and he takes you through the whole process.

 

That's excellent advice right there. Take it one step at a time. Don't leave things till later. Get each individual instrument sounding good and take your time with the sound design. Make sure everything fits nicely sound design wise. Don't force things to work together, design them to work together. Always trust your ears and try and imagine how things should sound like, and then use the tools you have to make them sound just the way you want. Stick to the basics, there's nothing fancy about really good mixes trust me. I personally use nothing but native plugins when I mix and produce, it makes my workflow much faster and helps me focus on what's important.

Even the notes you play have an important role in how clear your mix sounds. When you want an instrument to take up the high frequencies, take it up an octave. there's no use boosting high frequencies where there aren't any, then you're just taking up headroom. Each instrument you use should have a role in the mix.