I mean, when you're a genius @DEGRAD, you don't need silly, pointless lessons. Or practice. The natural born talent just shines through.

 

As I aged more into the senior brackets, I learned that people are often where they are meant to be, and if they are not, the world has a way of ensuring they are.

I do not consider Zimmer in the same league as John Williams, Bernstein and too many other incredible composers on film. However, he has carved out a niche-writing technique of his own. He also does one thing a decent composer does, writes decent melodies. people have stated he reuses his own melodies....well... if he wrote them, that is his perogative, and ignorance on the part of the film-makers who need better ears.
Please note I am remaining positive here because I also learned that anyone who knows who and what they are is secure within themselves, and has no need to say something negative, even if it is evident.

There will always be new, talented composers. Unfortunately, not all of them get heard of, given opportunities, or granted access to the inner circles. As whether anyone deserves what they have, I have no answer for that because we all make our own luck and Zimmer made his. whether that is ingenuity, nepotism or anything else, is irrelevant. He is there doing it. Nobody has to like him, and while he certainly is not even close to my favorites, he is there doing it.
As you all were.

 

Meanwhile, a poor ol' German called Hans is having such a hard time hiding from all them search lights

 

@BaSsDuDe
The same can be said of Danny Elfman, imho. He came out with a fresh sound, was derided as uneducated (or maybe untrained), did a lot of self-derivative repetitive work with a handful of genuinely fantastic scores here and there and eventually became filthy rich crapping out stuff that sounds like Danny Elfman. Most of his work makes me cringe but the good stuff is really good. So I find him both hugely overrated and entirely deserving of accolades at the same time. Just like Mr. Zimmer.

 

Honestly I think Hans came along right as modern music evolved from an emphasis on tonality and melody to being on evolving timbre and something more akin to sound design and how you feel about that evolution in music (especially electronic music) informs how you feel about him. That's why I think his more electronic scores tend to be effective and his straight ahead orchestral scores tend to be lousy. When he does something like Inception where he approaches acoustic arrangements as if they were electronic (all timbre) it's more in his wheelhouse and the results can be really good. Something like PotC- barf. (Oh yeah, that was Klause. Well, same difference.)

 

Korngold, Herrmann, even Jerry Goldsmith, those guys were OG. No one will ever touch them and that's just how it is... the whole "influenced by" vs. "blatantly plagiarized" argument is too deep a can of worms for me... I do think that both Zimmer and Elfman, whatever their faults, get credit for being pretty original. Now, Hans and his stable and credit, and that whole mess... I don't know, those guys all signed contracts to work for him, they get paid, I guess it's their problem. Pop records have been ghost written for major artists since the early days.

 

P.S.... Ludwig Göransson and Michael Giacchino as but two of several are showing what it is about by their work and saying nothing, letting their scores speak for them. When their scores were nominated against Zimmers at the Oscars, Zimmer lost.
Black Panther and Star Trek 2009 respectively as but two examples)

 

Bard:
In the realm of music, where melodies reside,
A storm is brewing, with anger deep inside.
Beethoven, Haydn, Bach, and the rest,
Their fury unleashed, their tempers untamed, they protest.

Hans Zimmer, they cry, with your monkey band,
Your fame unearned, your music bland.
No symphonies grand, no concertos of grace,
Just a cacophony of noise, a sonic disgrace.

With monkeys at your side, you think you're a king,
But your melodies are weak, your harmonies don't sing.
We, the masters of music, with our genius and art,
Scoff at your shallow tunes, torn from every chart.

Debussy, Tchaikovsky, Chopin, and Paganini too,
Join the chorus of scorn, their voices clear and true.
Hans Zimmer, they declare, you're a fraud, a sham,
Your music a mockery, a pitiful scam.

So listen well, Hans Zimmer, as the greats convene,
Their words like thunder, your ego deflated, unseen.
Your monkey orchestra, no match for their might,
Your fame fleeting, fading into the night.

For true music is born from passion and soul,
From the depths of emotion, stories to extol.
No monkey army can replicate such art,
No algorithm can capture a composer's heart.

So Hans Zimmer, we banish you from our domain,
Your music unwelcome, your presence a bane.
Go back to your monkeys, your synthetic sound,
And leave the world of music to those who are truly profound.


ChatGPT:
In the grand tapestry of time, they stand,
Beethoven, Haydn, Bach, a brilliant band,
Debussy's dreamscapes, Tchaikovsky's grace,
Chopin's delicate touch, Paganini's fiery pace.

They are masters of old, with genius untamed,
Their music a legacy, their names rightly famed,
Yet one modern composer, Hans Zimmer, the name,
Has stirred their ire, their anger aflame.

For Zimmer, a man of fame and acclaim,
Commands an army of monkeys, it's his game,
They toil and they labor, in the shadows they creep,
While he reaps the rewards, a secret he keeps.

Beethoven, the maestro, his fury so loud,
Haydn, the father, his anger unbound,
Bach, the architect of musical lore,
All seethe with rage at what Zimmer has in store.

Debussy, the impressionist, his patience grows thin,
Tchaikovsky, the romantic, his heart's in a spin,
Chopin, the poet, his words left unsung,
Paganini, the virtuoso, his violin's strung.

They gather in anger, a council they form,
To confront Zimmer and his musical storm,
They demand answers, they demand the truth,
For their art is sacred, their passion uncouth.

Zimmer, with a grin, faces their ire,
"Monkeys do my bidding, it's my entire empire,"
But the great composers, their resolve won't break,
They'll protect their legacy, for music's sake.

In the end, a compromise they seek,
For music's diversity, the future is not bleak,
Zimmer and the masters, a pact they agree,
To honor the past and embrace what will be.

For in the world of music, there's room for all,
From the classical giants to Zimmer's call,
The harmony of the ages, the old and the new,
In unity they stand, as the melodies renew.

 

BTW I'm on heavy meds- if I've missed the point of a post or argument it's on me

 

Aren't we all, @Trurl? I appreciate your earlier point, @Trurl, but the whole business of Hanz trawling thru VI Control for unsuspecting noobs makes his predatory behaviour and exploitation seem more and more like Weinstein. There are far too many people who don't know about the scandal of Hanz taking credit for other producers' works, wholesale. And others (like bunford) who turn a blind eye, because one of rctecs' assistants noticed his post, ten years ago.

 

Last edited: Nov 9, 2023

I don't know all the details but you certainly could be right. I assume his attitude is basically, "hey you all signed non-disclosure agreements to work for me, you knew the deal, you make lots of money and without me you'd have nothing so suck it." Which is uncool, but legally defensible.

 

Last edited: Nov 9, 2023

My argument was not at all mocking and diminishing the value of Hans Zimmer's works. He is a good person with a charming and respectable personality. The main discussion of this thread was that if music education is not taken seriously and instead of thinking about important and essential parts of music, the goal is to rely on shortcut solutions, this weakness in learning will show itself in the future. Many people run away from important and necessary music training for various reasons, but this is something that sooner or later will harm the person himself. Fame without having the necessary skills and developing musical abilities will cause pessimism among fans and will ultimately seriously damage the composer's work and future projects. Before it is too late, basic measures should be taken for basic and very important music education, and the institutionalization of these awarenesses should be the main priority of the composer.

 

I just blew my wife's mind...
We're watching Jupiter Ascending and she wondered who wrote the score?
I said, well it's fairly sophisticated if a bit generic, sort of forgettable and unobtrusive but very competent... my money is in Michael Giacchino getting a paycheck.

Nailed it!

 

Last edited: Nov 9, 2023

So, just to set the context for the below, I have no personal issue with @famouslut, nor have I posted any personally insulting or derogatory comments made by myself about them. Ever. From previous interactions, I thought we were both harmonious and constructive members of this amazing and generally positive community.

So, fast forward to today, and it seems like @famouslut reported my "Oh dear. You ok hun?" comment and got it deleted by mods for the reason of "insulting members is not allowed here".

1. Firstly, and specifically to the mods, can I ask how is saying "oh dear" in response to a post and then asking if someone is ok is considered to be "insulting a member"? I ask because the deleted post containing only "Oh dear. You ok hun?" was deemed offensive and moderated, whilst it was in fact a response to @famouslut post #359 of this thread, which (ironically) is far more personal and likely to be considered offensive by any reasonable person, which was actually quoted in the now deleted reply by myself. To note, the English dictionary provides the below defintiion for the apparently offensive term "hun":



2. Secondly, there are a number of posts throughout this thread, and particularly recent posts by @famouslut that are way more likely to be considered offensive by any reasonable and rational-minded person than simply "oh dear" and asking if someone is ok? The posts are more likely to be considered personal and insulting by the use of what could reasonably be interpreted as an aggressive and antagonistic tone, and conspiratorial nature; notwithstanding the inclusion of proactive and intentional actions like linking members' previous posts in a mocking fashion (post #374) with unfounded accusations, seemingly clear malice, and an apparent obvious intention to try and cause offense. These actions also include using terms like "chumford" that can be clearly interpreted as a derogatorily-intended variant of a member's username, which would clearly be for the user in question to consider and interpret whether this is offensive and akin to schoolyard bullying and name-calling or not. The malicious and offensives intent that any reasonable person would interpret is clear and evident simply from the dislikes and so on given to these posts by @famouslut by other independently thinking, rational, and reasonable members who have clearly recognised and/or interpreted the malicious and personally insulting intent of these posts and likely disagreed or disliked them based upon this. However, none of these posts have been moderated nor deemed to be offensive by the mods, yet "Oh dear. You ok hun?" has?

3. Having tested the theory, and reported the "chumford" comment by @famouslut as something I, as a long-term and constructive member of this community for over a decade and the subject of this attempt to what could be interpreted as petulant name-calling with a derogatory and malicious intent to offend, have found to be offensive (particularly as "chum" is actually an offensive term in my local language, as well as used as a derogatory term in English), this has been deemed by mods to "not be offensive", whereas "hun" is....which has the definition above, as opposed to "chum", the colloqually used derogatary term for sub-human using the fish bait context of "chum" or as reference to male or female ejculate. To be clear, I would not have actually reported this as I'm too adult for that, had it not been to just test this equity of treatment and applications of community rules.

There doesn't seem to be any avenue to seek clarification in response to the post deletion nor appeal and in the grand scheme of things the deletion is not a big deal for me. However, I'm just curious about the decision making process of mods on this and, as I've never seen anything like this having been a constructive and contributing member on an ongoing basis to this forum for over a decade, I'm just seeking clarity as a long-term and participative member.

Therefore, in the absence of any other contact method specifically in response to the deletion of my post, I am just seeking clarity on this as it seems a wholly overproportionate response to a report on a post that wasn't offensive in any way to any member of the community, and to also ask why then the same application of rule doesn't seem to have been applied fairly to other members that have clearly and evidently seemed to intend offense, as expressed by other independent members through their dislikes and disagreement?

I've no doubt this post will be deleted by the mods, but I just feel like this is important to seek clarity on as surely members should not be second guessing every post about their potential deletion, even when they are causing zero offense. In addition, members should not also be concerned about their posts being selectively deleted when not causing any offense and potentially treated less favourably than other members with posts clearly intended to cause personal offense being permitted. This approach would inevitably result in less constructive contributions by members not willing to put the effort into posts that may be arbitrarily deleted, and so clearly is something I would prefer to avoid as a long-standing member of this invaluable community.

.....and I haven't even mentioned the relevance of a post(s) with accusations of third parties being akin to and guilty of similar offences as a convicted predator, which is legally dodgy libellous grounds if nothing else!

 

Last edited: Nov 9, 2023

No, he is not! He is a bully! He will deflect, dodge, ignore, play the victim, find it funny and will do anything just to have his opinion across. He can only see one side - his -and will continue to do so, no matter what, to feed his condition - ein besserwisser!

Take a good look at his posts! It's a fact!

I remember him now - he is the covid guy from years ago.

I deeply regret wasting my time reading and answering to his posts.

 

Last edited: Nov 9, 2023

Hanz is not Anthony Fauci, my dude. Doesn't sound like you ever abide!

I mean, you don't have to look too far!
https://audiosex.pro/threads/hans-zimmer-randomly-famoused-composer.50662/page-8#post-432771

I guess I assume that you're from the uk, where they (studio) might've hyped local talent for as long as a week? The Oscars (year later) were equally focussed on locals. Elton John is still not even credited, let alone with his oscar.

I have no feelings about Hanz, the problem is that it applies to much of his bland muzak. He's like mac and cheese. Except without the mac. Or the cheese. The problem recently is the wild, jarring incongruity between what is onscreen, and what the soundtrack is saying. (I basically blinked using wtf at that entire Batman rooftop nonsense.)

Anyway, I think that the zimmerbots have spent a lot more time and energy trying to spam away "hateful" and "offensive" and "jealous" and "libellous" (!) and "mentally ill" (u ok hun) posts; from someone who naively thought like them, some time ago. I appreciate that it's hard to admit when you're wrong. Especially when your opinion amounts to: exploitation and lying is ok if you earn enough money and power from it.

It's quite telling that most of the bots struggle to point to any decent quality of der Maestro, beyond "business sense". And laud music he did not write, but took credit for. The amusing thing is that I'd detest the job of doing 90 mins of flipping sync!

I'd just wish that someone had told me what the deal was w/ Hanz (exploitation of better producers, so long as his name was on their work) when I didn't know better.

Oh, is that how it seems? You know that the internet has people other than me on it, right! This silly spamming of the topic to rid it of what you claim are "offensive" posts (you admit trying to censor) by me is quite played out. I get it. One of remote control's techs responded to you ten years ago! I have no idea why you'd cover your ears and conscience, and continue to try to prop up the facade of someone with enough power to change the film industry for the worse. Someone who blocks opportunities for newer, and (almost by default) better composers. You only have to compare Lorne Balfe playing your favourite "hanz" (Balfe) composition, to Hanz' superior, virtuoso concert.

 

Assumptions are the mother of all fuck-ups. Even though I visited the UK way after The Lion King movie came out, I'm not from there. At the time I was in the US working retail, and the studio was selling the soundtrack on the strength of Sir Elton. It was all over the marketing materials and even the movie trailers.

And yet, here you are still ranting and name-calling anyone who doesn't agree with you from your little soapbox.

You don't like his music? Fine! You don't like the way he operates? Sure!

However, we live in a post-industrial, post-capitalist hell where copying, exploiting, and taking credit for other people's styles and works is not only encouraged but highly rewarded. Especially if you're someone who is able to deliver the goods in a timely fashion, the project's principals like it, and the general public happily consumes it. So, good luck to you!

 

I'm sure it was! And I'm sure that's what the oscar voters voted for. Glad we agree to.. agree? As far as "copying" (sampling I guess?) goes, you have to pay royalties to grandmaster flash and credit the bassline you used. Hanz hides the people he's exploited, takes the credit and money.

Ranting? I've just patiently and objectively (?) explained the difference between (with evidence) the fantasy and reality, so far as Hanz goes. I have used opinion, but this is fairly sparing, fair afaic. I honestly crb anyone can watch this and think it's the work of someone who can even translate what's onscreen to what you hear, let alone reveal emotion. Apparently, Hanz does most of his work without referring to what he's scoring; which is not a strength. It is quite apparent, tho.

 

Last edited: Nov 9, 2023

Make up your mind. Because you were ranting about Sir Elton not getting his due earlier. Thanks!

I would argue that's not the case because the people involved (Lorne Balfe, Lisa Gerrard, Johnny Marr, Benjamin Wallfisch, etc.) appear on the production's credits where they were involved. Whether they were properly credited or paid, that's the production's responsibility or even Zimmer's if they were in his employ. If they felt they were not properly paid nor credited, Zimmer would be hit with some juicy lawsuits with all names involved. Are there any against him in this regard? Now I'm curious. My theory is that Zimmer might be the Rick Rubin, Sean Combs, or DJ Khaled of the soundtrack world with all that entails.

Yer still on yer soapbox, mate. Fair enough. It is sort of a public square.

However, again, I find it very ironic people having discussions about borrowing and stealing on this particular forum and the sister site. Carry on!