Hi all!,

I've just come into a little bit of money with which I'm planning to buy a new system. I'd really love and appreciate some advice towards this before I make some critical and expensive mistakes!

I have around £4,500 to spend right now, which will hopefully be pushed to £5,000 by the time I'm ready to splash out, so I'm looking for pro high-end gear which will last and do the job for a long time to come.

Currently I'm looking at a PC (I don't do Macs) at around the 2k mark. I usually build my own systems, but this time around I'm going to go with a company build. So, my first question: Inta-Audio or Scan 3XS? Anybody have experience with either or both of these companies?

The specs I'm looking at are an i7 hex-core, 32 gig RAM, SSD for OS and SSD for Audio, 7,200s for data and samples, fanless. I'm only planning to use VSTs, so I'm not going to go with UAD stuff, and I use a lot of Kontakt libraries, or at least plan to, already having a nice collection. I think 32 gig will be easily enough, but just to make sure, does anybody have any experience with using lots of large libraries together (i.e., Hans Zimmer Percussion + Cinebrass + Berlin Woodwinds + Adagio Strings + Trilian + Superior Drummer + Omnisphere -- seems like a lot, but I envision using such all at the same time alongside other regular VSTs). Also, even with a semi-fanless/SSD + Nanoxia case, will the system still be quiet enough to record using a capacitor/condensor mic relatively close to the system, 2 or 3 meters away?

2nd question: I'm looking at the RME UCX, but looking at the "problems" on Google, I've noticed a few people complaining about dodgy Mini-Din connections for the MIDI breakout cable, as well as loose power connections. ...Anybody have any experience, or could recommend another serious interface. I need at least 8 analog ins and outs, at least 2 mic-pres & MIDI

3rd: I'm getting Cubase 7.5, no question.

4th: A good MIDI controller with sliders and faders plus good keys which will keep on working (previous controllers have died on me) ...I'm looking at the Novation SL MKII at the moment. I don't really need MPC style pads or anything fancy, just keys, faders, sliders and a usable pitch/mod wheel.

5th: Slim Phatty, Tetra, or something else? ....I want analogue, even though primarily I make Neuro based DnB, so some people might be saying a Virus, but I'm after pure analogue to add that something-else seldom heard in Neurofunk.

I'm also going to get a Wampler Triple Wreck distortion box for my guitar, and maybe run synths through it too, just to let you know.

Doesn't seem like a massive amount for five grand sterling, but this really will be many christmasses in one for me, and hopefully the next ten years being musically busy and free, so any help or advice will be most welcomed!

Thanks

 

I'd probably go for one of the Presonus Studio Live mixers and upgrade S1 Artist to pro http://www.presonus.com/products/StudioLive-AI-Series
(I have a Novation Zero atm and the pads are not really worth using, velocity is very inacurate which is not surprising considering the cost of them)
If you're looking for a keyboard controller with lots of midi controllers there are many options, but i'd be keeping in mind after touch (pads and strings) and also to ensure that it has at least some continous controller knobs (which not all have)

I would seriously consider a UAD, i recently picked up a UAD1 from a friend and have to say UAD2 is now high on my list of wants!

Comp - An Intel Chip on an ASUS board would be my choice, 32gb should be plenty of ram!

You don't need your whole library on SSD, only what you're using, with Studio one you can import files to project which can be on SSD (although i'd recommend that the SSD has a mirror on an SATAIII that incase of error)

I know you said you're going for Cubase 7.5 no question, but you might like to note that Presonus has 50% sale until the end of the month on Studio One

My 2c

 

Hello! Regarding PC, you can always do better with a custom build. I can suggest you to go with a decent Intel Haswell i7 processor with onboard graphics [for quietness], decent Gigabyte Motherboard, 4x4GB sticks of low latency [C6 or C7] G.Skill RAM, Samsung 840 series SSD and one or two Western Digital Black or Green AV hard disks [silent] for storage. For cooling just buy a decent and chunky Scythe, Noctua or Arctic silent cooler. Get a good quality ~600W Corsair modular power supply. Don't spare the money on the PSU! The rest is up to your taste. You will end up with a really quiet, powerful and reliable PC. You can PM me for details. I do this for a dozen of studios [aside from mixing and mastering] with whom I collaborate with and they only want my PCs, always. It's been almost 15 years now.

Regarding the audio interface, it's always best to go with a digital card and external AD/DA. Buy a decent PCI-E RME card like HDSPe AIO or RayDAT and build your audio chain from there. There are so many nice preamps and DA converters you can choose from then. How about Focusrite OctoPre MkII Dynamic http://global.focusrite.com/mic-pres/octopre-mkii-dynamic and TC Electronic BMC-2 http://www.tcelectronic.com/bmc-2/ ? You can choose the best AD and DA separately if you want and all analog audio is still out of your PC and you get the best possible ASIO performance and latency since your primary audio card is PCI-E. If you opt for RayDAT you can connect 4 different 8ch preamps to it through ADAT if you want more channels. It's a rather future proof set up. ;) I personally use RME HDSP-9652 and have TC BMC-2 and TC Konnekt 48 connected to it with digital connections. It's a very robust and brilliantly sounding, dynamic and in general great sounding system for the money. If you want a decent all-in-one solution I can recommend good old RME Fireface800 or UCX, or TC Konnekt 48 or Impact II. TC interfaces have really nice and usable FX, too, but their drivers aren't as great as RME's.

MIDI controller? I'm a fan of Arturia keyboards like Keylab49 or 61. I think they might do the job for you, too. You also get a rather decent collection of software emulated classic synths for the price and the price is definitely right [low]. The keyboard and the pads and the build quality is very decent. On the other hand, you might want something like Akai MAX49 with CV/Gate outputs if you want to control your analog synths through MIDI? Not many MIDI controllers have CV/Gate outputs. The feel of the keyboard and pads on Akai Max49 is also very decent.

New analog synths are a really tough sell for me [or to me ] since they are mostly very minimalistic and not sounding better than best softsynths. Apart from Dave Smith synths. If you have some money to spare and want a decent analog synth go with Dave Smith Mopho X4. You can later on expand it with different modules like Tetra or Mopho. It's a bit expensive solution but I don't think there's anything new *analog* that can compare to his synths. Except maybe for the Korg MS-20 *KIT* which is really easy to assemble. MS-20 kit is a modern analog recreation of MS-20 and it costs around $1200AU. Of course, there is always Doepfer A-100 modular mania to which you can succumb to... I'm dreaming about starting my own A-100 modular. That's some real analog shit. Not Microbrute or whatever they're called... it's better to invest in u-he or TAL VST synths instead, really.

Good pedals and analog FX are always welcome! I'm also in love with good sounding guitar pedals or distortion/tube FX. Electro-Harmonix have some really decent ones! http://www.ehx.com/ Eventide also - https://www.eventide.com/AudioDivision/Products/StompBoxes.aspx.

What about monitors? It's preferable that you choose them according to your own taste, but I can recommend Dynaudio BM series, Neumann KH-120, Focal CMS65 or Solo, and Equador D5. Blue Sky monitors are also extraordinarily good. If you can afford full range Blue Sky system with SAT 6D monitors and SUB8 or SUB12, you will probably not need any other monitors to compare to...

Cheers!

 

Seems like you know what your doing but for a controller get a TASCAM US2400 as it comes with 24 motorised faders etc...i got a second hand one on ebay for 300 quid...bargain...love it!!!

 

yeah as sinewave says it's good to have memory with low timings Mushkin or GSkill are good for this.. last box was mushkin this box is Gskill
Although I don;t think it's quite as critical as it used to be with x86 systems =)

Also what he says about AD/DA is quite right, it;s what set protools (with all its faults) above many others.. emu made a reasonably priced card using the same converters but this was a while ago.. i have to be honest im not totally up on the play with current sound cards. Apogee are also renouned for being great, but also pricy!

For me its all about finding a balance across the hardware you have, no point having manley and avalon hardware if you've got a soundblaster live ;)

 

@remix - yes those Tascam MIDI controllers are an exceptional bargain and they go for low prices. It's a whole freaking MIDI controlling console!

Exactly, Ozmosis, a studio should be built from the ground up with components that you find useful and of good quality! Back in the days I used to draw a lot of studio configurations on the paper. Cut on USB and analog connections as much as you can for purity. It helps. Before building a studio you should define what your goals are and put it all on paper. In time you could find a better solution for some part of the studio and you should draw a studio v.1.1. Otherwise you risk spending too much money on incompatible components! You can get the best of the best of all and finish up with an unusable or bad sounding studio!

The studio I drew about 10 years ago doesn't differ much from what I have now and I'm almost finished with it. You have to have a vision first! That brings enthusiasm and the fulfilment with each piece you acquire... and you know nothing goes to waste. Since late 90s when I sold my last analog synth I've never had to sell anything. If you don't have a plan, you will end up selling stuff and buying new stuff and losing money in the process.

Also, before buying anything blindly you should always ask yourself "how is this going to fit my studio?" "Is it really necessary?" There's lots of "stuff" you can buy, but if it doesn't fit your studio and collapses the whole of your concept of studio then it's not worth it. Like for instance Lexicon MX400 effect. I'd love to have it. But I'm not going to buy it because it works only up to 48kHz digitally so I would have to work in 48KHz only because of this tiny FX. No way. And it's analog I/O is not good enough for me. Just an example... and Lexicon knows that, that's why their FX are so cheap these days. They're highly useful for live setups, though. Highly. As are Behringer compressors... need I say more? i own a Behringer compressor btw... shhh

I probably meant to say: "don't rush it and buy everything that first comes to your mind because it will not end up well". Or something along that line. Start with the PC and slowly build up... just my 2c advice.

Cheers!

 

Your 2c are worth 10c sinewave

 

Maybe he's used to work on Cubase like on no other DAW, so we should understand his choice.

On 32GB RAM, you shouldn't think about how many libraries you can use at once(because you can use all that vsts/libs you mention above at once), but how many of their patches as separate instances at the same time, because usually a library is build up by more than one patch so now you should think how many separate instances patches of a single library you would use/need in your practical situations.

Yes, will be quiet enough, because if you turn the condenser microphone with its back on the computer, the capsule will record mostly the sounds coming from it's front if it's set on cardioid polar pattern so cardioid + nanoxia = enough silence to record (at least if your room is also treated or if you have a "mic thing" tool around your microphone)

If you look only into reliability and good keyboard feel then you should consider the german ESI Keycontrol XT series, they're all made from aluminium case, with a fader for modulation instead of a wheel, a few knobs and... check more about here ESI Audiotechnik GmbH, but they're unbeatable in their price range being more than usable. But if you play piano and you crave alot for that real piano feel with hammer action, then you should consider the Roland A88, Studiologic Numa, M-audio Oxygen 88 or even AKAI MPK88.

 

Thanks for all of your sage advice, you've all given me some real food for thought!

Actually, I have more of a headache now than I did before, but I guess I asked for it. lol

With regards the PC, my one main issue with a self-build, which is what I'm used to doing, is that in the past the systems I've built have taken years to refine - swapping components, adding fans, tinkering here and there - just to end up with something stable. I suppose buying from a dealer like Inta or Scan, for me, would be reassuring to know hundreds of similar systems had been sold and were known to be stable and functionable. Also, I'd have a warranty on the entire system. I wouldn't fancy my chances getting a refund on a £600 CPU if I accidentally fried it. I know I could build something probably marginally better, for cheaper, but I'm very tempted to buy something with that extra level of reassurance for a little extra. ...still, undecided.

Thanks to SineWave for his thoughts on an interface. I'd actually completely written off the idea of buying an internal card, but now you've given me something very interesting to think about. I've been really studying up on the RME interfaces (USB/FW), and I'm kinda smitten, but you've now given me the notion that I can improve upon their quality with separate AD/DA. I've read alot about the RME converters and preamps, and the only real criticism I can find (when they're not compared to something 5x the cost, i.e. Prism interfaces, etc.) is that they're very "clean and crisp", as opposed to "smooth" in their transparency. I guess buying an internal card and routing an external AD/DA via ADAT would give me the options - which are many - but then again, couldn't I just plug a channel strip/preamp into an analog in on the back of an external device? I guess the conversion would still be done by the RME, but I'd have the colouration of whatever strip I bought. Again, decisions, decisions, decisions! ...I do know this though, whatever I get will be far superior to my current set-up, and AD/DA and pre-amp quality are something I've only really been considering over the last couple of years, and right now seems like a luxury I'll only be able to experiment with in the distant future, when hopefully I'm stupendouly rich! New standalone Neve 1073 looks nice though

On a more serious note about this though, I'm now sort of stuck between the UCX, HDSPe AIO + AD & DA, Fireface 800 and the new Fireface 802 which is an extra chunk of money. Each seem to do what I need, but each seem to have their limitations. ...The UCX seems ideal to me, but quite a few reports are telling me it's not as robust as its counterparts (loose Mini-DIN and power sockets). The FF800 seems great, and has always had great reviews, but is FW only. Again, the idea of buying a new system and then having to try out various Firewire chipsets on PCI cards seems almost counter-intuitive to me. The new FF802 looks actually perfect to me, with both USB/FW, built like a tank, top RME pres and converters, but is £500 more than what I wanted to spend. Maybe worth it though, for the future. ...The HDSPe seems like a great choice for options and future expansion, but to me more components always seems like more potential problems, and I also think I'd end up spending a lot more down this route. The card is relatively cheap, but then I'd be looking at expensive AD and DA and probably also extra MIDI boxes. I'll have a serious think about all of this.

On the DAW note, yeah, Cubase all the way for me. I know it inside out and can work fast and painlessly with it. It does what I need. ...As much as I'd love to learn another DAW, I just don't have the time or need. There are things in other DAWs I'm quite envious of, but then again I don't need everything, just what works for me. Seems to me like as feature packed as some DAWs are, the few functions they offer over Cubase seem like they've been disgned purely for modern sounds, and everything ends up sounding the same because people tend to focus on those tech-tricks instead of composition. Last five years of dance music have sounded like sound-design in Ableton using NI synths to me, as opposed to something to actually listen to or dance to. Like the shred guitar of the 80s, which was like "wow, look what he can do, he's so fast" for about 5 years until the genre became completely dead through utter boredom. I can actually make music in Cubase ;)

With regards the rest of the toys I mentioned, I guess the money might run out before I have a chance to invest depending on which interface option I choose. Maybe a sacrifice, as I really wanted those toys, but I guess it's best to get my core system as good as it can be before I expand.

If anybody has anymore ideas or advice for me, I'm all ears, but again, thanks for your words. It's great to hear from people with experience.

 

Yeah, I forgot to mention new RME Fireface 802! It's pretty good to have both USB and Firewire connections for flexibility [even though for me it's Firewire all the way] and it's surely got better converters than Fireface 800 because 800 is rather old.

But yes, on the other hand if you buy a HDSPe card with ADATs you can get the best of all worlds, so to speak. There are so many interesting preamps, AD, DA, even consoles that you can connect to it over ADAT. Like this puppy, for instance: https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun08/articles/tlafattrack.htm Yum. Also, you can still get any of the audio interfaces like Fireface 800 or 802, or just about any audio interface, connect them via ADAT to HDSPe and use them in standalone mode if you need that. I bought TC Konnekt 48 instead of Focusrite Octopre because I needed an audio interface with great preamps that I can use for location recording. It all depends on what you need... You probably don't need a portable studio like me so you have more options open.

If I didn't need a portable setup, I'd end up with RME HDSP 9652 + TC BMC-2 as DA and Focusrite Octopre MKII dynamic as AD. This setup still gives you one more ADAT I/O that you can use with Fat Track or something. With RayDAT you get one more ADAT I/O.

One more reason I really like RME HDSP 9652 is that it's got 2 MIDI I/Os. Two great and precise MIDI I/Os I might add. ;) RME AES, RayDAT and MADI also have 2 MIDI I/Os. If my HDSP 9652 broke I would definitely get a RayDAT card as that one seems to me like the best price/performance RME card. Actually that was my intention but this friend offered me HDSP 9652 for just 300 euro so I just couldn't refuse and I do have 2 PCI slots on my motherboard. Regarding PCI and PCI-E slots, since you're buying a new Intel based PC, I suggest you to stick to PCI-E cards since Intel motherboards don't have native PCI support any more so the manufacturers use 3rd party bridge chips to support PCI slots and they don't work so great as the native PCI does. I have AMD CPU based computer with native PCI support so a PCI card works for me. Anyway, PCI-E is a bit better regarding latency anyway, so you should just go with a PCI-E card if you decide to go with an internal audio card.

 

Thanks again, SineWave. What you're telling me is really helpful.

I must say though, this cash is burning a hole in my pocket right now, but I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to keep hold of it for a couple more months and really do some research before I splash the cash. There are too many options, it's all too expensive, and I really need to make the right choices before throwing money at something that looks shiny. Very tempted to do that though... very tempted :P

I actually thought when I got this money that it'd be enough to get all the things I've dreamt of, audio wise, but the more I think about my needs and future expansion, the more I realize that anything above entry level gear in the audio world starts to become extremely expensive. Budgets suck!

I'll let you all know what I've gone for and how it's working out for me in a couple of months when hopefully I'll have the core of a future proof dream system up and running.

Cheers! :D

 

I've seen people assemble studios within few weeks when they got a hold of some cash and it never turned out great. What it always came to was "I still need this, this, this and I have to get rid of that, that and that". If you get my drift. ;) That happened because they got some money, got really excited about having a home studio and rushed the purchase. Purchased first things that came to their mind and every budget is always just a budget. It can melt away so easily be it 5000 quid or 50000 [OK I'm exaggerating LOL].

Give yourself some time to do some research first. Sound On Sound is a good resource for that, better than forums and especially better than Gearslutz. After you've researched the stuff that you find interesting try going to a calm place, like a park, with some pencil and paper. I "meditate" like that in my garden over a cuppa and a fag. Imagine yourself working on your music and see what your needs are, then put it all nicely on paper [the scheme of the studio] and the prices, too. Then go shopping.

Yeah, you can post about your progress in this thread or a new thread, or PM, whatever works best for you. I'm always curious about what gear people like and what their experiences with it are. Cheers!

 

Dont Buy cheap stuff you get what you Pay for and as soon as you buy a peace of equipment is loses it's value in the passed i perched out bored analog Midi equipment/ sound moguls for $2000 dollars and now they are worth maybe 2 or 3 Hundred Music equipment looses its value Fast so if you are going to buy something do some research and make sure it is exactly what you need

 

Just so many variables to consider -- I think the key (as many have stated) is in your interface (ad/da) -- you could drop 5 grand on that alone in some cases, do some research and shop around -- any new-ish computer should push your DAW and plugs just fine (provided you are buying/upgrading to support the 'suggested' system requirements for your softs and peripherals -- not the "minimum" system requirements). For optimal performance -- DEDICATE your machine to studio use only - avoid the Internet when possible, and refrain from installing applications that have no useful purpose in the studio (games, Facebook, etc are unnecessary distractions ...)

Keep compatibility (32 vs 64) in mind when choosing your DAW and plugIn arsenal. I suggest an external drive for sound libraries (hot swappable high volume flash drives and HDSD cards work too). For optimal performance, your internal HD should never exceed 50% - 60% capacity - as the system will use that free space for memory paging (OS, DAW and PlugIns -- keep the system simple).

If you are recording primarily "in the box" (ie; Electronic Music) there is no reason to throw money into shit you don't need or won't use --- much depends on your intended use, if you are "serious" about your craft, and intend on releasing your music to the public -- keep in mind the medium that you are recording to (Vinyl, CD, Digital [MP3], Lossless, Etc) -- the ends justifies the means

And finally, monitors -- often the most understated "tool" in the studio -- a good set of monitors can make ALL the difference

- 2¢