Well, it's not odd as such (albeit unconventional I guess) - it's how the hardware is designed - the curves were apparently hand tuned for all frequencies by the designer. They are very much by design.

But I've not designed a boutique mastering grade high-end analog EQ, so I can't say whether I agree with the design decisions made, or even how it sounds. A lot of people seem to like this unit, so I'd just say the designer knows way more about this than me, and why he designed it like he did. And for mastering use, EQ boosts/cuts tend to be gentle anyway. Basically, I'm willing to give him the benefit of competence.

I'm pretty sure the plugin replicates the hardware faithfully. Relab are pretty detail-focused.

You're entitled to have a different opinion of course, and I don't have enough specialist knowledge in this area to argue a case - so I won't. ;)

But my original point for responding was these curves are not the same as cramping, and as I haven't tried the plugin, I don't know whether it *actually* cramps up at nyquist - maybe someone who's tried it can check.

 

Last edited: Oct 26, 2023

so, it does this accurately as they said in the hardware manuals. impressive.



the high end however :


It's understandable if the asymmetric shape shown on the low end frequency area as the filter for low bands includes bell and shelves where the shape got widen on the midrange portion of it, where one can assume the shelves somehow combined/influencing it, it's just weird to me when it tighten on the higher end side for the high bands if you know what I'm talking about.

also I can't open this link where they suppose to explain it : https://relabdevelopment.com/learni...the-maselec-mea-2-asymmetrical-filter-curves/

anyone got lucky with it ?

 

Last edited: Oct 26, 2023

Both manifesting as cramped curve in the high frequency area. Please spare me the paternalistic tone if you are able to. Whether something is caused as an artefact of piir / generic DSP code or as a deliberate design choice, the end result is a cramped (aka "asymmetric") frequency response in the highs.

 

404

 

No, cramping is not another word for asymmetric. The high freq curves are asymmetric in the high end only *due* to cramping. This EQ has asymmetric curves throughout the frequency range, which are *not* due to cramping.

"Cramped" by definition is something that is constrained, running out of room - and we call EQ's that do this in the highs because (simplistically) they are running out of "room" at the nyquist limit (which is why oversampling fixes this, as it gives more "room" for the DSP to work above nyquist).

The EQ bands in this EQ are not "cramped", they are asymmetric.

But I'm not interested in arguing over definitions, if you want to call the EQ bands on this EQ "cramped", go for it - I just disagree. You may have different opinions - that's fine too. Let's leave this alone and agree to disagree.

 

What do you think guys? This Maselec convinces you?

 

I liked it. Wouldn't pay 150 for it, but it's nice.

 

I've watched a couple of comparison videos of Relab vs Acustica Ivory5, and the Relab one sounds better to me. I own Ivory too so you know i'm not biased. Relab sounds a little more 3D, Ivory sounds a little dull or murky in comparison

And the hardware, well that's just perfect sound

 

Trial version available?

 

Yep, one week, https://shop.relabdevelopment.com/cart/add/J-88-01-74

 

Enter your iLok User ID

 

Can someone explain why the fuck this EQ is being modeled so much lately? To me all these emulations sound incredibly boring without a truly distinct sound.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with emulating these EQs, because that's the stage we are for the DSP technology right now, the problem is these companies are so behind with real-marketing and still using snake-oil method that didn't really work anymore for those that aware about how things are. When it comes to these high-end mastering grade EQ, it has moved way past these curve behavior where all people want is the magical "box-tone" the hardware offers. Through the stages of development, plugin dev discovered that, saturation behavior and oversampling are some of important factors to consider to get the emulation closer. My point is, there's nothing else been discovered after that so far and we stuck at it right now.

Plugin developer then started the approach with collaborating with the hardware maker/creator itself for marketing reason and then torn between making the plugin "dirtier", knowing the "box-tone" is what really sells, when the hardware maker/creator is always going to go for their ideal "cleanest" or close to no distortion at all design because well, for hardware maker that is their pride, and been the life's work of making things as efficient, clean, transparent as possible. Among the circuit designers nobody gonna praise you for doing something filled with tons of distortion and change the overall signal get past through it.

This is where we are right now, and it sucks.

Plugin Alliance mastering EQs such as Dangerous Audio Bax, SPL Passeq and Bettermaker Passive 232EQ are the perfect example of that. None of this company wants their EQ to have distortion at all which resulted the Plugin EQ only emulates the curve. Some people like it, but they are not really a hit. They stopped doing that and tried their "AMEK EQ" approach and doing it their way with adding some distortion and all and they were right about it, people love it. No way in this life George Massenburg would've endorse the GML/Sontec with saturation and noise like those AMEK EQ offers, but fuck those old farts, PA did it anyway and it becomes a hit, it sells better. Plugin Alliance probably knows this and all their collaboration after those early 3 EQ mentions will have that "Headroom" knob, I believe they negotiated nicely with the hardware developers and educate them how the market works for plugins. Headroom knob is a win-win condition and I personally think it's a good idea.

PA got away with all their channel strips plugins that basically using "curve only" approach for the EQs because it has preamp and dynamic sections that emits some saturation and noise to make it realistic. The EQs are crystal clean if you turn both off.

Still, there's nothing much, just a bit saturation and oversampling. No new discovery at all.

PA now looking at the Relab's Maselec EQ and can only say "been there, done that". This EQ only emulates the curve, some fishy asymmetric at it too and from one of the video above posted by @Barncore it nulls to -70db with Pro-Q and some people on the comment section swear they could get it to -100db. No box-tone apparently.

 

Last edited: Oct 30, 2023

Ivory has been around for a while. Afaik this new one is the only other emulation of this EQ. You might be confusing it with the Sontec 432 emulations that are around and look very similar.

They are ment to be super transparent and precise, basically the "digital" EQ of the analog world. But yeah, i get what you mean. Maybe using the hardware version on a super high end monitoring system tells a different story (Not that i had ever done so) but until then, it's kinda redundant.

 

Dangerous Bax EQ plugin is my favorite Baxandall ever because it sounds so good without any distortion, and i can cut and boost a crap ton of extremes without feel i'm loosing nothing. Fuse Audio has a different bax (a 500 series one) that's free and have a nice distortion and midband. AA also has it's free bax with distortion. The new Noiseash one sounded like a bad joke and i hated the GUI. At least, for me, the charm of those eqs are the fact they don't distort at all and have a sound that's hard to replicate with stock eq (or would take you more time to do so). Even if i like the Fuse Audio and AA Bax, they are a no FOR ME because of distortion. I even told here i would use the Sontec 250 and GML 8200 on EQuilibrium insted of PA takes on those. They just sound better for me, because they don't distort. I don't know if i want a Mastering Grade eq distorting at -30dbFS

 

the option. people like what they like, but having the option to choose is what matters the most. Amek 200/250 EQ are a big hit, even when some people want their GML clean, majority didnt apparently. I'd like clean EQ for filtering job on the busses too. Most of these colored emulated EQ wont give any distortion for subtractive work anyway, only boost. That's why I like the Headroom knob approach. It's the buyers appeal. Marketing wise, those clean EQ emulated EQ with GUI can't beat the sale of the opposite one. Acustica's EQs are loved for this alone, it offers the "box-tone" the way how they see it. Being clean emulated EQ you'd often see a comment such as "$129 for GUI ? no" something like that. The Maselec been getting a this a lot, check those youtube videos comment section.

 

Last edited: Oct 30, 2023

so basically youre sayin its the same shit as any number of other eqs, but with a different gui? if so, that sucks, I was excited for this one

 

It's not, the curve has a behavior that successfully emulated as claimed by Relab. It's still dark for me, still learning what it is about. Could be a workflow enhancement if one really looking for it. but at a static EQ position, it's null-able with your favourite digital EQ as claimed with people that tested/demonstrated it on youtube video to -60 -70db.

Also it lacks that stupid sizzle on the high end a good hardware mastering EQ (transformer magic/effect) has which theoretically will sunk the low end frequency to give a little front to back perception. Or depth, 3D like others call it.

 

Last edited: Oct 31, 2023

I was thinking of that one, my bad. Same boat for both though. To me they're just digital EQs with an analog interface that doesn't translate well into a digital UI.

Clean analog is just...kind of boring to make into a plugin. If it sounds closer to a digital EQ than a noisy, distorted Pultec, Motown or Neve emulation, I'm gonna compare it to the former, and it isn't gonna win.

 

I feel sooo sorry for Relab people ATM...