For reasons, I've been relying on laptops for years. But recently, I learned about the existence of barebone PC who weight very little and take very little space. Now I'm seriously considering getting one of these (and semi-retire my current laptop).

I know this is pretty basic, but there's no problem with these devices, right? What specs are the most important when producing?

 

I think these metrics have become irrelevant in recent years. It's more important to know the gen of CPU, how many cores it has, etc. I'm not very savvy about this either. Same with hard drive, size doesn't matter, it's more about the speed, things like NVMe for smooth sample playing.

 

depends what you look for, they use same "crippled" components like laptops, so you just loose integrated screen and keyboard,
if you want mini PC, I wouldn't go lower than standard mini-ITX motherboard and adequate components,
something like GIGABYTE B760I AORUS PRO DDR4 with i7-13700 with 64GB DDR4 kit (2x32GB) would be great start

 

Thanks for the rec. Yes, I'm guessing the components are not the same as usual PCs, but I've heard at equivalent specs, Mini PCs are far cheaper than laptops. I was disappointed to see how laptops lowkey plateaued in recent years spec-wise, so I'd rather get something else.
I'm also interested in the fact that you can upgrade/replace the parts more easily. I guess I need something that's bordering on regular PC, but with low weight/surface, because I often have to move.

 

mini PCs use non-standard parts, usually only RAM (SO-DIMM type "laptop-like" RAM) and storage (nowadays 1-2 M.2/NVME and 1-2 SATA ports at best) is user-replaceable/upgradeable,
power delivery is non-standard which means non-standard mobo design, lower-tdp cpu, external non-standard power brick etc...
-which essentially isn't that big issue since most people don't upgrade those anyway, buying new PC instead

maybe in close future, we'll see small PCs with standard USB-C power delivery, which could make them even portable with USB-C power banks, but as of today I don't think it's a thing yet

if you have to move monitor(s) + mouse + keyboard + audio interface, it's not really portable imo

 

Many of these mini pcs will produce a lot of fan noise when you use them for production.

Mac minis are probably much better in this regard, they're very powerful and relatively good value for money (I know, Apple!). I would certainly choose one and I've never had a Mac, PC all the way for over 30 years now.

 

Second hand SFFs? Of course depending on needs..

 

I've been using an 8th gen Intel NUC at home for a few years. Works perfectly. Sadly, they have stopped producing them, but I think that was always the plan. They just wanted the concept to pick up some steam so OEM's would start manufacturing them.

One thing to keep in mind is: they are basically laptops in a different form-factor, so you won't get desktop level performance. The CPUs are low-wattage laptop CPUs, and the RAM are laptop SODIMM. Intel's top-of-the-line NUC machines were basically mATX mini-desktop PCs with real CPUs, RAM and space for huge graphics cards. If you want to go that route you can just build it yourself instead of paying extra to buy it from an OEM.

The best mini computers are probably the Mac M2, but if you really want a PC you could look at what Lenovo has to offer. You can configure your own build on their website. A cheaper option would be to look at some of the Chinese brands that are offered on Amazon/eBay etc. Beelink is a popular one. I don't know what kind of guarantee you get when you buy from brands like that though, but they seem like great PCs on paper.

The only negative thing I've experienced with them is that the fan can be quite loud and annoying at times. Since they are so small they ofc need small fans, which in turn makes the fan noise high pitched and annoying. Basically just like with laptops.
The other thing is what I mentioned above: they are basically laptops in a different form-factor, so don't expect them to be more powerful than a laptop.

 

Last edited: Oct 26, 2023

Oh, btw: I'd say that the single most important thing to consider when you choose which one to buy is the CPU. I'd say you need at least a quad-core i7 or Ryzen 7, preferably with above 3.0GHz base clock and at least 4.5GHz boost. You can set the power mode in BIOS to performance to get the CPU to stay at nearly full boost most of the time, but it can (will?) degrade your CPU faster. I've had mine for about 6 years without noticeable drop in performance though, so I guess it depends on how much you are using it every day.

EDIT: This one looks pretty ridiculous for the price! SODIMM DDR5(!), 8-core Ryzen 7, dual M.2 slots, USB4(!), Wi-Fi 6 and only for €759! https://www.bee-link.com/beelink-gaming-pc-ser7840-19943849-clone-1

EDIT 2: You can get it for €649 with the code SER7840HS110

 

Last edited: Oct 26, 2023

Minisforum, Beelink and Geekom make excellent and very fast mini PCs for very cheap - comparable to the upper third of current gen mainstream desktops. You're not going to get great gaming perfomance though. Just about fast enough to play modern titles at 1080p at acceptable framerates if you buy a system with AMD's best iGPU (780M) - that's not relevant for DAW work or any office task except for CAD / 3D modeling though.

Zotac, Gigabyte and Asus also make great mini PCs, but they charge a hefty premium for the brand name.

Most of the cheap mini PC brands are Hong Kong based and have just a handful of warehouses around the globe. Make sure to check shipping times.

 

overpriced DDR5 and 8-core cpu capped at 65W (advertised 5.1GHz is out of question)
100W power delivery over USB4 means to cap TDP at 54W in BIOS

 

54W is max for the Ryzen 7 7840hs. It's a laptop CPU, not a desktop one. Most "regular" laptop CPUs are only 35W, so 54W is actually pretty good in comparison.

 

Thanks everyone for the input! Really helped me seeing things clearly.

What about Taiwan? Actually, I'll be living there for a while soon, and that's one of the reasons I need portability. I was expecting things to be cheaper, but it seems the only perc of being there is that you have access to a lot of second hand stuff. I've seen that Intel Phantom Canyon NUC fully equipped at 600 USD.

Yeah, that's why I asked in my first post what specs are more relevant to music production. Although I have some gaming in mind (but I'm not deep into it, and I have peasant origins, 30Hz/720p is fine in my book).

 

Well, if nothing else, shipping from HK will be much quicker

 

If you can't build your own barebone, there are places that will do it for you. There's an overhead but the end result is better than buying a generic one. e.g. https://www.avadirect.com/Mini-PCs-NUCs

 

Something like this?
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-elite-mini-600-g9-desktop-pc-p-88u34ua-aba-1

 

unless you are doing vocals, pc noise is irrelevant below a certain db level. They are a number of solutions for putting the pc in another room/location and transferring I/O over ethernet.

these are widely used in medical for moving data in imaging rooms without pc emi interference.

here's a cheapy from ebay. I've never used this brand, just an example of an easy solution.

 

I did IT admin for several decades. Here's the scoop.
NEVER buy new or 1st gen tech. let someone else debug it, let someone else pay the cost of acqusition.

used 2nd or 3 generation is fine for most people, realize any tech you can buy is soon "obsolete" because
the manufacturers have to keep you on a treadmill to keep selling you the same shit over and over again.

its just like music, buy the lp, buy the 8-track, buy the cassette, buy the cd, buy the mp3, buy the stream.
they just sold you the same product 6 times in a different package.

anything you buy, will not be perfect for your needs. You won't know your needs until you buy something. Why
waste a boatload of cash on your computer education? buy a cheap used machine, figure out what works in your situation
and what doesn't. Then consider "upgrading" or maybe you can just add a few things to your cheap used machine
to get it where you need it to be.

I'm jaded, i've had my hands on hundreds if not thousands of computers over the span of my career. and I watched those
shiny new 4 or 5 thousand dollar machines be installed, used for a couple of years and then trashed or recycled, over and
over again. Computers are now a commodity. buy a 100$ off lease corporate computer and play with it. see if it
runs your software the way you want it to. find out what you need, then spend the money if you need the
ooh ahh look at this brand new pc, or maybe just buy a couple used ones for the same moneys and have a
backup and a machine for experimenting on.

True story. I upgraded our network with new computers, back in the day, 3 years later, i was using a pair of those tower
computers for saw horses for cutting lumber as they were now worthless on the used market.most of the rest went into
a trash dumpster, so at least a couple were useful. probably at least a hundred thousand dollars turned to trash in 36 months.

 

nice machine but not much upgrade potential and unless space is an issue try this instead

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3645772628...1AEkSQWBWSIuEFUZwf3epAac3H|tkp:Bk9SR6Kwwuj5Yg

 

I7 is nice but if the number of cores is the same an I-5 will put you within 10% of the same performance for less$$$, usually i-5 are in less demand, because everybody thinks they need an i-7 but unless you are doing 3d rendering or video work ( and you proably need a dedicated GPU for that as well) you won't really see the difference for the money spent.

more ram is better 16gb minimum - ram is cheap now, buy some. Basically more cores, recommend 4 , and more ram allows more vst to work more better.

at least that has been my experience for music software..