dud , im kind of having trouble mixing 808 and kick with the gain, my bass always sound louder... so im curious, do u gain stage all your sound with peak meter? i mean, i use de MVmeter but i use peak meter for drums and rms for the other sounds.. so do u gain sage all with peak meter? thanks in advance

 

Gain ≠ level.
I'm using peak gainstaging in the plugins but the faders for the level. And I do not balance kick <-> bass by any meter but by ear, because this depends not only on peak, RMS, VU, or LUFS, but on their freqs/dynamics and of course the rest of the song.

 

hmmm i guess i understand, gonna study thisss thanks !

 

And you'll definately need to use a de-esser on your vocals.

 

hahaha it remind me of.... welcome to BUSYBEATSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

Is 0db VU = -18dbfs in your example?

 

What if it isn't, does it change the relationships between the channels?

 

I guess it doesn't. Was just wandering what his reference levels were/are...

 

The point in doing it the way he has recommended is adjusting each channel's waveform to the same peak volumes (i.e. 0dB), while giving yourself full resolution for your channel faders by pegging them at Unity (0dB) and adjusting the waveform on the channel before it's output is even sent to the top of your channel strip. His example wants 0dB on each channel while keeping the faders having maximum resolution. What you are correcting is the waveform amplitude of the material on the channel. It is to standardize their peak, in effort to deal with variances created during recording/creation of the channels waveform. The +/- value you have to move each channel fader is the same number you have to change (via clip gain, or gain utility plugin) +/- so you can return the fader to Unity.

 

Last edited: Oct 20, 2023

So if I am understanding this correctly, the point here is to have faders at unity gain (for the sake of resolution) while at the same time making sure there is no actual clipping (everything is at 0db) especially the tracks that move the needle so to speak (i.e. tracks with the lowest frequency content). Is that correct?

What is then happening when you continue to process those signals further? Is there a need to have these (gain plugins) at the end of each chanel strip as well?
Btw, cheers for the help man.

 

I couldn't figure out why my audio kept clipping when I sent it through some of the Plugin Alliance plugins then I came across this video which discusses things already stated in this thread that helped clean up my audio when using those plugins.

 

You got it. I think his example makes use of 0dB as the initial channel target because you can see the channel tripping into the red visually and it could help you get it really very close. And also, it would make the math very simple. You are just establishing a baseline peak for all the channels, and without your faders all over the place. The values of the fader will then also represent the exact numerical value you are away from 0dB on every one of your channels so it's another nice visual help. Say you want to take 3dB off each channel, you could do that with gain plugins or do the math at each clip gain and just type in the new values you need. If you are mixing a completed project, that can also be a good time to setup groups of like kind instruments. All the drums, or all the basses, etc. Then you can pull the entire group down using one channel fader, or again insert another clip gain value by using that bus channel strip. By doing it with his method, you now also know the audio hitting the Input side of your first plugin of each strip, or the channel strip EQ; is not already clipping before it even gets there. That and your faders having max resolution starting from Unity, are some of the bigger objectives. You know what Sausage Fattener plugin does? You look at your waveform displayed in the DAW's regions and it will make them look uniform and filled out. You don't want 18 different sized sausages with a bunch of them looking Anemic. Your DAW probably has a Waveform Zoom option that affects your entire project's appearance but does not change anything but how they are displayed. When you move clip gain +/- you can see the waveform "block" of the information get skinnier/thicker as you do the clip gain adjustment.

I do this a little bit differently, but it's the same basic idea. I'm sure there are some nuances and finer points which can be added and corrected; but after doing it a few times you will get the bigger picture of what that method will show you. I do the old house music way, where I start with my kick drum, as an anchor; at about -6dB on it's channel strip. You can put a free sound meter app on your phone and do monitor calibration with your target "magic number" monitoring level of 85dB. I am a bit more "approximately" than that, but again it gets you to the correct ballpark. If you want to do the VU/Digital Peak math the Bob Katz calibration approach is what people often use, or start with:
https://www.digido.com/portfolio-item/level-practices-part-1/
https://www.digido.com/portfolio-item/level-practices-part-2/

 

yes. musician on a mission its a good channel too !

EDIT: musician on a mission its not a channel xd but I've been following this guy for a long time

 

This 4 part podcast series (From Sound On Sound) on the subject is the best Ive ever heard

 

Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2023

Gain staging helps when you have external converters that have a certain sweetspot. If the sweet spot is -18 dbFS, then they perform better on the way in an back out (AD/DA). If you're not doing a round trip - to outboard gear - and back into your converters, then my next comment comes into play...

Gain staging helps with the 'throw' of your fader moves. You can use a trim plugin, or built-into-the-channel trim knob to set all of your track levels to e.g. -10 db. This allows all of your faders to remain at 0 so that you can mix without making huge fader push/pulls while you're mixing Very helpful technique. Do you have to do it? No, but I would give it a try and see how you think about fader moves after that.

 

Last edited: Oct 21, 2023

Setting the monitoring levels with a meter is a big help for me. Almost everyone has a tendency to keep sneaking the volume up and up, the longer they work. I absolutely do it. It is a big help to know your project has an internal reference point set, and if you catch yourself riding everything up you can quickly figure out what happened. Other helpful ingredients come with understanding the signal flow of your daw or your mixer channel strips, because it can be something different than might be assumed; and also why you can switch your daw from Pre-Fader Metering to Post-Fader Metering.

 

Don't make it too complicated for yourself. As long as you work ITB, it hardly matters (with few exceptions). Here's how I do it:
I do my rough level mix on the first insert, which is assigned gain by a vu meter. When I've done my level mix, I calibrate my meters to show a maximum of 0VU each. I then use a second VU meter to keep my levels constant in the chain. Done. If you don't have enough resources for 2 vu meters on each track, put a vu meter on your main bus, leave some headroom and then calibrate your vu meter. Done.

 

Last edited: Oct 21, 2023

Don Tyler "Grammy-nominated mastering engineer" also has made a template based on -18db rule.

 

Nope, the calibration 0VU = xdBFS refers to peak.