Personally having invested heavily in an 88 key MK2 and several other hardware & software offerings from NI I would not go for the MK3 or anything more from these guys. Native Instruments founders sold out to a Venture Cap firm and numerous bugs across multiple versions of their software lay unfixed, people have cashed out and all they seem to do is add insult to injury to people annoyed in their forums is add icons into s/w to launch their app-store to buy more stuff or upgrade to even more expensive versions which require monthly subscriptions (eg. Traktor) As a controller it's not worth the money for what you get compared to Novation or other offerings - and certainly not for the quality of the software they're now producing.

To be honest if I had the kind of money to spend on another 88 keyboard I'd buy a ROLI Seaboard RISE 2 with MPE

 

To me I like the display and the Keyboard being a fatar bu the lack of faders and Pads is a big no.

 

I am done with NI controllers and the software.
Having to run the software is super annoying and buggy to be able to use the controls to it's fullest. So no, I would not drop well over $800

 

@Zenarcist
Never tested this solution.
But i was already curious about it

Back to the topic : the concept of any "integration", with hardware pretending to "compete with computer" BUT still using a computer is a non sense by nature.
Forget about it.

No computer at all OR computer, you need to choose.
Everything "in between" is just a dead end (i tried it for decades to know the end).

Look at MPC : see how they are running in circle between "hardware only"AND controller with computer.
And everything in between.

Ableton new Push "autonomous" mode ? A joke, because it is under powered and too limited compared to Ableton on computer.
You will still need a computer ... and so this development was useless for power users.

NOTHING is going to compete with a computer with full display : power, flexibility, portability (with laptops), software choice ...
Running in circle around this point is just loosing time and money.

My next live guitar rig is a laptop with ANY plugin / DAW combination i can think of.
And don't speak to me about iPad and the need of third party apps to link audio apps : HEADACHE

Computer with a real display with Studio One Control Link and any MIDI controller for the win (for me)

So get a GOOD keyboard with nice keybeds and enough controls (pads, knobs ...).
And do your own integration into your DAW ... if it can do it

 

It's quite comical when you consider how these companies rave about the big selling point of having a screen on which you can see your VST plugins when most people just plonk them in front of their huge wide screen monitors that are 1000 times better.

I'm being a little bit facetious, I know real knobs are better and it's nice to have a row of them below each parameter on a screen - I have a Push 2 - but the price of this new NI keyboard seems off the scale. It's probably the Apple factor, all these big companies want to swim in the billionaire pool.

I also have an NI MK1 61, it's really good, solidly built and will probably out-live me.

 

Thanks for the answer, but I already have a serious controller for my DAW (Nektar Panorama P1), that's why I mentioned VST(i), I wonder if they found another / better solution to control VSt(i).

 

Last edited: Sep 28, 2023

Off topic:
We're two now.
I went with my laptop and headphones and libraries at the musical instruments store and tested the budget range of pianos with MIDI-OX to test feel and dynamics, there was a Roland that costed twice as much (than CDP-130) that had double escapement action, but when I tested CASIO I was surprised: heavy key downweight (I tried half grands that were lighter) but not too heavy and an outstanding dynamics (could make 1 to 127 velocity, many times certain value ranges are cut), this is many times neglected, but it's a very important feature when playing piano.

Still now, when I play i forget it's a virtual piano, great action, when played "hard" it becomes tiring, perfect for studying.
Of course, mediocre sounds, but I just use them in "emergency".

In topic:
You answered yourself.

 

In fact, the only better solution is DAW reporting plugins values to the controller.
That's exactly what Ableton do when you assign Ableton controls to VST settings.

I made a rack for every VST i use with "best of" 8 parameters.
When i select the rack (effect, instrument, combination), 8 names and values are displayed on my keyb.
Enough for me.
That's the best solution i found on Ableton.

Studio One Control Link still 10 times better.

FL Studio provide good support in this domain too with "Multilink" assigned to "in focus" plugin.
But not Control Link level, because you don't know WITCH parameter is assigned.

Control Link display an "overlay" with corresponding parameter name. That's the revolution to me.
Always visible (even better with a secondary screen)

You need to tell us the DAWs you use

 

That is true. But two "little details" might also tip you off those "most people" are not their only target audience. The S-series boards can be powered solely by the USB to computer connection; but they also can use a separate standard power source. These are quite uncommon on lower priced units because they are not there for cost-cutting reasons. There are also 2 5-pin Din Midi ports and a Kensington Lock. They probably only contribute a relatively small amount of their retail price; but would not be there if using them in front of a computer monitor at home is their sole intended buyer. For that user, the screens make more sense; because the laptop they are using it with might be 30 feet away across a dark stage or hidden from view.

They are expensive and I would not buy one for $1000. It's too much money to invest in just a controller for me. They sell very well for the price point they have set it at. If someone doesn't have the money to buy one; they make other cheaper models you could pick from. They obviously seem to feel that's not their problem.

 

Thank you for your detailed answer.
I use Reaper, but I'll phrase my question another way.
Does Novation keyboard transmit Midi CC?
That's what I use to control synth.

 

You are looking into the Novation 61SL MK3? It certainly should receive and transmit Continuous Controller MIDI data, on both the USB connection and the 5pin Din Midi ports. Does being able to turn off Rx/Tx matter for the way you plan to use it?

• Comprehensive connectivity – route anything anywhere with USB; MIDI In, Out, Out 2/Thru; three pedal inputs; Analogue Clock Out; and two CV Pitch, Gate, and Mod outputs

These have a huge amount of features compared to the NI S-Series boards. If the Novation controller build quality is similar to that of the Bass Station 2; the NI S-series will have the edge. They are solid, elegant, and the Fatar keybed is rather nice. I would want to take the NI to go play at a "house of worship" or a elegant department store sitting next to someone on a harp for people shopping for the holidays, or on the road with a band. Whereas the Novation, would be the one you want to take to a club or make dance music with, sitting in front of a computer. The featureset of the NI is not even close.

 

That's what made me give up on Novation. So i bought a NI 61 Mk 2. Boy was I excited... All the bells and whistles. Then came the real life test. And before i knew it, i noticed that all the presets were not NKS ready and had to be made, and i stopped using Komplete Kontrol as it was so painfully slow. And with Cubase integration is not that good to start with.
So no, i'm not going to repeat the same error. I use my iRigKeys for small sessions and my 88 notes for full sessions. My mk2 is only for show. Very nice in the evening mood...
My two cents

 

Got to admit I like my S61 Mk2, its a decent keyboard, and I'm a complete spud who can't remember what control I have mapped to what so I love that the screen tells me exactly what the value is and what its for.... big win....
I don't use it for browsing pre-sets, but have made up profiles for all my favourite plugins that are not NKS (softube) and saved one pre-set which has my preferred controller mapping on it. For me its all about quick synth control and the complete lack of a short term memory.
Will I be upgrading to a Mk3 any time soon, no chance...

 

I do not agree in this completely.
The use of the mouse is not the best solution when it comes to input devices. If you have a big monitor with a lot of screen real estate... you will roll your mouse around some kilometers on a busy day.
1. I use Wacom tablets for ages now and they are a huuuge win in Mouse kilometers.
2. My Steinberg USB Controller CC121. Absolute no bells and whistles but really helpful (for Cubase only ofc)
3. My Streamdeck 4x8 is a huge time saver and a mouse kilometers saver as well.

So while I agree, that most of the colorful one-size-fits-all-soulutions are not worth the money, you are wrong saying everything is senseless.

 

I'd much rather have a scalable UI in Kontakt.

 

judging from this thread, I guess mine will be the only sale they make...

 

Most of these controllers I see with so much auto-mapping/integration, make me wonder what you all are automating so many parameters on.

I write all my automation in Logic projects using Latch mode primarily, and this is done after midi notes have been either drawn or recorded. I very rarely need to Midi Learn more than about 3 parameters to a plugin, and I don't like to have 30 automation lanes created on one Midi channel. You can end up with hidden parameter automation layers. The S-49 has more than enough physical controls for me for plugins, or I will use an actual synth instead.

 

Last edited: Sep 28, 2023

Having gotten a chance at trying out the MK3 I have to say there are great things and things that in 2023 feel like are missing.

Great (obvious aspects):
Build quality is excellent, keys feel nice as they should, pretty much the same as the MK2. If you like those you'll like these.
The lights are better on the keys. They are slightly softer and more pleasant to look at.
The buttons and knobs feel premium. No complaints there.
NKS2 integration is cool. I hope more instruments enable this.

Missing (obvious aspects):
Having no faders or pads is a giant miss. There are many things that would benefit in the workflow even just within Komplete Kontrol / Kontakt. The new NKS2 tries to alleviate this, but ultimately fails.
Touch screen controls... this needed to be touch enabled. There are so many places within the UI that it would be so much quicker to touch than to use the physical rotaries.
No stand included. Price point is too much otherwise. The unit I used was brown boxed, so I'm not sure of the included accessories, but there should be a plethora included otherwise price again is too much.

I'm sure as more people get to use it and for longer that there will be additional things, but this is what immediately was apparent.

Overall, if you are very heavy into NI ecosystem this is a nice, but not necessary upgrade from the MK2. Primary upgrade reason should be aftertouch and NKS2, otherwise stay with MK2. The way the ecosystem is moving it is very obvious that a Maschine like companion is needed when getting the MK3, but if neither have touch screens it is a bust.
If you are not in the NI ecosystem I recommend waiting for the Novation 61 SL MK4 as it is better for everything not Native Instruments ecosystem related. Also worth keeping a look out for Arturia's new offerings as well. They upgraded their essential keyboards, the new pro series should be coming up.

 

There are a number of user based projects that provide bespoke control surface integration for specific hardware controllers. I'm not sure if Novation is one of them, but it might be worth looking into.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PHWtGKeSBXdwABzOhi_oeNq-bMxEersFt5-pJXy8NoU/

 

Good tip, I nearly ordered a MK3! Have you got any info regarding timelines, etc?