sorry this is a bit of a long one and i get that it's a bit presumptuous to expect anyone to read it but sometimes you have to scream into the void. sometimes it helps just to sit down and get it out. not expecting alot of engagement on this but figured better here than on the notes app in my macbook...

first off, just bc i know it's coming, let me make clear what i'm meaning by "success".. i mean commercial objective success. I'm not saying we have to be on tv and have masses of adoring fans. i basically mean what we would all probably agree on as success objectively. able to make a good living and comfortably provide for our families. fill small theatres maybe.. basically be able to create and release music as a job w/o the need to supplement w/ another job.

sorry, needed to get that ooftw bc i could already hear the philosophers among us going straight to the old "well that depends on what you would consider success" gem. philosophy is certainly welcome but i am hoping for a little more of the practical knowledge from maybe some of the guys/gals who have wrestled w/ this and come to some useful conclusions that they can share.

so i'm ab 5 yrs into recording. i'm in my early 30's and have been writing music w/ bands in my teens and early 20's, and on my own since. i started to learn how to record simply to get song ideas out and scratch a creative itch that had been growing through my mid to late 20's bc of adult life/family/career getting priority over anything creative. It was completely and totally meant to be just for me. i had 0 ambitions or ideas of anything ever coming from it or anyone, aside from maybe my girl or a few friends here and there, ever hearing any of it.. and it remained that way for i'd say ab 3 to 3.5 years. through this time i've just become completely and utterly obsessed w/ writing songs well, and also recording, mixing, producing them well. 4-6 hours literally every evening after work, out in my barn that i'd converted into a small but well equipped home studio.

this 3.5 year mark is where this creeping feeling began and it has really ramped up over this last year..

up until then i was perfectly content just doing this for myself and felt no need to be validated elsewhere. i truly enjoy and LOVE making music and the act itself was enough... and then it all started to kindof "click" and i started to get good at it.

pls try to hear this next bit how i'm intending it. none of it is to sound braggy or pompous or whatever it may come off as. i'm just trying to get this across accurately (from my eyes).

for ab the last year i've hit a pretty noticeable and drastic jump forward in quality of both songs and production and sound quality. like, actually GOOD songs. i've submitted several of my mixes to several outlets that critique/roast independent music and have gotten pretty insanely positive feedback. nearly universally. what I’m trying to get across with this is that I know that there is something there musically... additionally I’m not ryan gosling but I’m not a bridge troll physically as well which is obviously not a requirement but helps. but..

I’m starting to realize that these things that are a positive in my corner are fucking me up though bc they’re giving me something very dangerous. Hope. Hope is scary. Bc it can easily lead to delusion. Which is my biggest fear. I’m so worried ab being perceived as delusional. I spend most of my time thinking I’m an untalented, unlikeable, wannabe imposter musician. though that keeps my outlook pretty bleak, it has had 1 upside for me to this point and that’s that I am extremely, obsessively, and ruthlessly critical of myself and anything I do/make. this has been a pretty effective deterant for delusion to this point (and also success in many ways as I’m so critical that I rarely share anything bc of thinking everything has to be perfect or it’s not worth seeing the light of day, but that is a whole other fucked up can of worms for another post..) but i am getting to the point where i actually feel strongly that i may be onto something with some value.

All this leads to me seeing an approaching brick wall that is looming pretty large and unavoidable and is coming quick. which is the “WHY the fuck am I doing this?!” of it all. I spend so much time writing and recording music. Like, so much time. It’s all I do from the time I get home from work and eat a bite until I have to force myself into the house to sleep. For 5 YEARS. It’s an obsession that I cannot, not, indulge. I’m really struggling with this Idiotic and naive notion that I started with which is that I would be capable of never needing any outside validation and I would always be able to find total contentment in just making music for “the vibes” or “for myself” and that would be enough. It’s becoming so clear that soon it will not be and it’s making me extremely sad. Yet the futility in releasing music and the obvious slim to none chance of success makes it very hard to see the point in trying.. rock meet hard place.

Im sorry, I know this is not an uncommon feeling for creatives and I may not be saying anything new here but that doesn’t make it less imposing and crushing. I don’t really even know what I’m asking or looking for from you guys but like I said to start, I have to yell into the void so I might as well see if anyone has some insight I don’t or at least some way to cope with the futility.

 

I feel you.
Nowadays, I consider this making music thing as a drive, something I just cannot avoid, something I have to put out, get out of my brain in some way, even if no one will ever listen (and no one really listens - well, maybe just a handful of listeners - because the world is just totally overloaded with all kinds of stuff and maybe I am just not good enough...).
I am in my late 40s and have given up hope of success in the way you mention: I got I nice job that I like and which gives me some free time, and I just put music out because I just can't avoid it or do differently... it is like a physical need, like eating or sleeping.
Most of the time I just play my instruments, and sometimes a song comes out, but I just do not force this process anymore - if it does not come out, I just play as practice/relaxation/meditation.
Hope that helps in some way.

 

Last edited: Sep 21, 2023

I make music because it's fun to me if you want success you gotta be one of the best out there and that's a lot of pressure hard work and luck (being born with outstanding talents like an ear for music or a great voice) just make music if you enjoy it if not then just quit there's nothing bad about quitting when you don't feel like doing something fame and money is only for a few chosen ones and im fine with that

 

you sound like me 20 years ago, enjoy it while it lasts. go with it and see where it takes you, get out there, drop demos at dj's and organizers, be bold and ask them if they'll play it sometime (i still remember the first time i did that at an industrial party, me: "hey could you play this sometime maybe?" DJ (no idea who he was at the time, turned out he was the biggest organizer of industrial parties in the netherlands): "well that's a bit cheeky..." Me: "nah just opportunistic" think i got 40-50 gigs from him since that day). It's unlikely people will think you're delusional (unless you start asking 50000,- as a fee for a first gig or start claiming that your bigger than jesus or something like that), dont worry about that. take the offers you get, do gigs, be your own biggest fan and be enthusiastic when you play live. worst thing that could happen is not getting a response, it might sound disastrous but that's all in your mind. best thing that can happen is that people will enjoy it, even if it's just 5 people that show up. the most important thing is to have fun! 99.9% chance that you wont be able to earn a living with it, that is something that is extremely difficult to achieve and even more difficult to maintain and in the end it shouldnt be your main goal. but the sheer amount of fun you could have just getting your stuff out there and doing some gigs, maybe even a few tours is worth more than any amount of $$$ and will be more than most people achieve.

 

thank you. i know what you mean by it being a need. thats probably one of the hardest parts of it is that just quitting the making music part of it isnt really an option. and thats what i'm wrestling with is that i know i'm going to continue doing it bc i have to, but going the rest of my life making it for no one to ever hear/enjoy/validate feels so depressing..

 

I feel depressed too, for the same reasons you mentioned, but... well... without making music I would feel worse, I think, as there is something enjoyable/pleasurable and fun in the process of creating, and as I said... unavoidable in my case.
Sometimes I get some positive feedback from friends and strangers, and that has become enough to carry on.

 

Last edited: Sep 21, 2023

Hi There! I don't pretend to be very expert in what you are asking, but I have had a long musical career with ups and downs and great moments and pretty terrible times. So I can offer up a few things that might be useful. I might seem a bit flippant but I'm actually being truthful here.

Start by knowing what you want. If you want to be famous and adored and all that, music isn't the way. Study up on current strategies and techniques for being influential and then you can add music to your portfolio. If you want to make music then make music.

Work with other people. Do not work alone, you need to have a team of people who fill in each other's gaps, fight over everything, come up with ideas you wouldn't normally do. Even solo acts are the face of a team. Yes you will end up hating each other in the distant future.

Do soundtracks. Know any film makers? Do advertisements. I did one for a food processor once. It paid $6K for every territory. A painkiller ad paid $40K.

Get management. Get somebody who works a phone, posts on Instagram, shakes hands, and will not shut up about your work. You are trying to be everything. That won't work. They will take a cut of your income. And sure as hell sometime in your career you'll find out they ripped you off. But at the moment you have nothing to rip off.

Don't sound like. If you sound like X we already have X we don't need more X. I used to listen to demo tapes for a label (because I was stuck waiting for a tour). If it sounded like X I'd 'thanks no thanks'. Sometimes it was X but they added something WTF ... put that in the listen bin. (These days no one listens to your demos because you will sue them for plagiarism.) Journalists will always want to say you sound like X, because that's lazy. Fight that.

If you are successful congratulations you have about two years before they dump you. You will fly in the air and fall down. You might be lucky - you might fly a few times. But you need to have a real job for the times you aren't flying. I developed a teaching job which helped in the inevitable gaps.

I was very lucky to have worked back in the last century because this one is a bit harsh. Do not base your career on stories from long ago. Sure it was great back in 19XX but this is 2023 and everyone is staring at their phone every living moment. Be in The Now.

Make lots of friends.

 

this was all valuable info! thanks for responding with realistic thought out answers. a few definitely stood out for me, especially working with other ppl and getting management (in my case maybe even less management and more like someone to post and promote online and work ig etc.). thats one of the biggest things that get in my way i think bc all of the need for constant promotion and presence online is such a large job in itself i never am able to keep it up with any consistency. i enjoy and am good at making the music. not all of that stuff so i neglect it. thanks for reading my post over and taking time to respond. you obviously have experience so i very much appreciate you sharing it.

 

An other interesting recent thread for you to read may be this one: https://audiosex.pro/threads/aliens-ai-boredom-life-tips-creativity-sleep-deprivation.71170/

You are doing this because you feel the urge to create music. Nothing more, nothing less.

But you are also driving yourself crazy with the thought that what you create is too good to keep for yourself and you friends. So you feel your music should be out in the world for everyone to enjoy? Welcome to the other millions of composers/performers that feel the same way.

The only 'sane' thing you should do is to keep enjoy making music without expecting anything. Put your music on a as much streaming platforms as you can. If it's as good as you think it is people will eventually pick it up. If not, it probably means it wasn't as good as you think it is? But at least you enjoyed creating it!

 

I would plainly state that you make "live music" or "band music", as opposed to computer/internet music. Some people are successful with "computer music" starting nowhere but the internet. For the music you are making, I think you need to be where the music is actually happening. I can think of many great bands and singers that I have only ever heard of via the internet; most of whom I have never heard of again. Some of the bands I got to see at 5$ local shows in the earlier 90s would blow most people's minds that they actually started out like that. Maybe plan a vacation and go check someplace out.

 

You have the right idea of not thinking about management yet. Management only makes sense when there are things to, manage. As a smaller creator, there's not much to manage YET in all honesty. As for looking for someone to post/promote online, I would suggest to rather look for a content strategist/digital marketer who can really plan out that aspect for you. Or you could do one yourself and learn as you go. Either way, the content still has to come from you at the end of the day. There are so many tracks I stumble upon that have bad mix/masters, terrible lyrics/performance yet they hit my radar because of good marketing/promotion. I suggest you look at other videos in your niche and analyze what they do right. Utilize shorts, tiktoks, and reels. The organic growth you can get from short-form content is just unmatched at the moment.

Like @ThomasE said, working with other people is great for growing your craft and your audience too. Looking for collaborators is a great way of expanding your reach since you are tapping into their network/audience as well.

As for posting online, it's just about getting in a groove. I hated posting and I still don't like it. However, it doesn't stop me anymore as it's fallen into a habit now. The added effect of dopamine hits from likes/comments alongside positive statistics and graphs does push you forward to do more later on. The key is just to be consistent, a posting regime that you're capable of and doesn't burn you out. Low-effort content with good hooks is what matters. By low-effort, I don't mean bad videos, I just mean that the lighting doesn't have to be perfect, or the editing either. Authenticity prevails.

 

Most musicians aren't business orientated, they don't ruthlessly and coldly sit down and look at the actual data from a profit/loss perspective. They don't start out with a business plan with projections and targets. When they think of the music business as a creative industry they only really see the words 'creative' and 'music'. Learning business is equally important to learning music. It's kind of opposite to the popular perception (and often personal identity) of musicians as care-free anti-establishment rebels. The successful rebels present a facade though behind which they're ruthless and acute business men/women. They have to be, especially in the modern age.

You probably need to analyse the market and create a product or find a niche that sells. You have the music, the positive reviews, you now need to do the dirty stuff that creative people hate doing. Explore every opportunity, it might be that you can make money in a parallel industry using your existing knowledge and skills.

I would wish you good luck but in the business world that's almost an insult to your abilities. Luck is for gamblers.

 

Having listened to two of the tracks which you posted here, I definitely think that you could make it, but you'd need to do a lot of networking and consistently put yourself out there and stay in people's faces the entire time. If you find a visual artist (and there are a lot of those in the shadows as well, same as with musicians) who does interesting videos, you can regularly put out YouTube clips which will sooner or later find an audience, especially if you also release a lot of shorts.
Consistency is your friend (as in pretty much every endeavour in life). I have a friend who had more than 100K clicks on his music eventually, but who stopped at that point. Keep doing it and your chances are at least decent.

 

not a long post at all, thanks for sharing,
too many people are in similar "circle" too,

the fact you're being aware of the situation is better than cluelessly hoping for a miracle,
making business and living from a creative work is quite a difficult task, but many people manage do so well,

I personally wouldn't recommend that as in my eyes forcing myself into doing art full-time for a living is too restricting for creativity,
having diversified income like having regular job and other stuff is more effective in the long run imo, but that's each to their own,

you say you spent years making music hours a day, which to me sounds like you neglected other areas of interest, which results in your "burnout" and maybe traces of depression,

if you roll back your mindset to your 20's where music was a joy with friends for friends, you may want to stick back to this attitude to build on, with all the added knowledge and experience you earned since then,

also by your 30's you could have had more than enough opportunities to get into local artists and online collab/business/audience side of things, not essentially making new friends but at least having a small contact network, not turning down seeming uninteresting offers and so on...

if you want success, you have to go for it, it may sound simple but it just is,
you admit having had zero ambitions back in the day, go ahead and put more effort into it then,

many "artists" not being "successful" are because of not standing by their art and not actively spreading it beyond their comfort zone of friends, for ex. introvert artists are just scared of being cheeky, lacking confidence in their work for no reason,

hope is not scary, hope is an excuse to justify lack of self responsibility and effort, in a similar way religion is (no offense intended),

success from business perspective tends to be a very short-term goal, mainstream artists always have a certain pinnacle of their carreer but remaining 99% of the time is about just "ordinary",
conflict is if energy and effort put into something results in joy but not matching income, art is simply not fair to begin with (just take a look at famous painters being recognized and valued after death for ex.),

finding a good balance is not something most people have in their 30's, so don't get discouraged,
set yourself short-term smaller goals to keep track of your "success" and you'll find peace of mind

 

Maybe it's just me but this post just reeks of entitlement. OP enjoys all these luxuries in life and yet, it's still not enough. Give your head a shake man. Most people reading this forum won't be able to reach your level of success no matter how hard they work. OP cannot see the forest for the trees.

 

It is advisable to replace the term "success" with the term "life quality".
Definitions become way more easy, if one can come to a reasonable conclusion about what money and the aquired goods essentially do in regard to this term, or first of all in general.

 

Last edited: Sep 21, 2023

just keep making the music you can, better, quicker, stronger, more memorable, more emotional. composing - producing is like a sport you have to ready and on the spot if something ever comes up.

 

Yeah, making music and working with sound is good for the soul .. it's a lot of fun (for me the most fun). So in my opinion you have to see it as something to enjoy.. but don't ever feel entitled to being commercially successful at it. If you want to be, then theres a whole industry to learn and master quite beyond the art of making music. It's marketing, PR and playing the industry games.

You can do that for sure .. you can choose to pursue a career in music.. and that entails a lot of hard work and doors being made available via that work. But it's there if you want it. I tell you .. 99% of people think they want it but really don't.

But the standard idea of entering the music industry is tired and encumbered by all of the above. You could just do something crazy - write some tunes, perform in your local area .. make connections with people and work that way instead. I mean, thats how great bands got big back in the day (and how many of them never got anywhere of course) ... but if you want it that badly then take a big step back, think about what you could possibly do with your skills, charm, wit, resources and network of friends .. then make some plan, build a pathway for your yourself .. a vehicle.

 

Last edited: Dec 19, 2023

Put yourself out there, instagram, tiktok and all of that, start releasing music on your own and see how it goes. Start locally, maybe there's some place you could perform, gather small crowd of your friends and go from there.

Maybe do a cover of some trendy track on tiktok, show off performing it, create some buzz, I heard your music and it's amazing, you have nothing to lose really.

I have facebook friends that create small buzz just recording a cover of a song on acoustic guitar, people dig that kind of stuff, you don't have to have some hi budget videos, just intimate video of you performing something. Worst thing you can do is to lock yourself in the studio and be hard on yourself and overthink everything.

 

Last edited: Dec 19, 2023

Yes indeed - I had to go back and edit my post after reading yours because I realise I was being a little .... gloomy. :D it's all there for the taking.