@Rodger
NAM can capture any amp, drive stomp, cab ... and any combination , being hardware or software.

My only concern is algos sims being less and less attractive to me.
Once i tried my first profiler (GE200 and THU Rig Player) i known i will never go back to algos ones.

Most ppl using Amplitube don't use their algos amps now with ToneX.
Same with THU Rig player : it killed the algos ones (whereas they are very good).

That's probably why Line6 and some others are looking away and NOT creating a profiler (for now ).

So YES you can capture an amp simulation.
Tonex and NAM users are already profiling Kempers profiles , AXE FX, Line6 ...

 

Yes, you can capture digital simulations and real amps and pedals to be used in NAM.

How it works:
Basically, the NAM trainer needs one DI signal and the same DI passed through the gear you want to capture. If it's a real amp, you need to reamp this signal (using a reamp box) through your amp and record it. If it's an amp sim, you just reamp using the amp sim in your DAW.

DI signal: https://colab.research.google.com/corgiredirector?site=https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EPUJNbVXtRnCwqVQtPRUgz3jiexNmvMD/view?usp=drive_link

So let's say you want to capture an amp sim, this goes like this:
1. Download the DI signal and insert it in a new track in your DAW.
2. Load the amp sim and set it the way you want to capture it.
3. If you want to capture a "head only" profile, disable the cab. if you want a "full rig" capture, leave the cab on.
4. Disable all time based FX.
5. Render/Bounce the track, save it as output.wav, 24-bit, 48kHz, Mono.

Now go to the online trainer: https://colab.research.google.com/g...-modeler/blob/main/bin/train/easy_colab.ipynb
and follow the steps there.

Some tips:
- Step 1.3: upload!
Here you upload the DI and the output.wav you created in your DAW.
- Step 2: Installation
Hit play in this cell to prepare the trainer environment.
- Step 3: Enter metadata
Optional
- Step 4: Train!
Before hitting "Run", change the values inside cell:
epochs means more time training, for high gain tones, 500-700 epochs gives good results.
fit_cab: set to True if it's a "full rig" capture, otherwise, leave it at False for "head only" capture.

It will take some time, when it's done, follow the steps to download the model.nam file, rename it accordingly.

I have done some real amp captures too, let me know if you need more details on that. By your message I assumed you are more interested in amp sims for now.

Cheers!

 

Profilers really do a great job at capturing single tones but if you need to tweak it, modelling offers a lot of options.

I can link a number of blind tests (even did my own tests here) with real amps, good modelling (Helix, NeuralDSP, STL) and captures and most of the times, there's little to no audible difference.

So, for my use, as I like to tweak things, I go with modelling most of the times. We are not talking about "amp in the room" feel here, just recorded sound, and, in my opinion, for this kind of sound, modellers and profilers do a great job simulating real amps, none better than the other.

 

Interesting, unfortunately there's no way to Demo the plugins.

 

@izn444nz
Listening, i can A/B without any problem.
That's how i took a GE200 instead of Line6 and such algos ones.
Dynamic is clearly different between profilers and algos.

About feel ... it is even more obvious.
I played half of the market hardware/software solutions.
And will probably never play algos amp sims again.

Profiles ALWAYS win feel wise (with good captures, of course).
Even when i was suspicious about ToneX, it was due to bad profiling.

Of course, when you mix and don't play guitar, algos works like profilers.
But when you play ...

Note: i have good ears AND i'm very picky about dynamic. That's why i'm not going to convince anyone.
I loved playing on algos ... until profiling came to me
Even if it is a nightmare to FIND a good profile

 

@izn444nz
@ItsFine

Thank you for the information guys, I will try the capture using the Amp sim method to see how it works and sounds.
this is very interesting as I am chasing the old sound from 80s metal
example - whitelion- Defleppard, Cinderella
if you guys happen to have the old 80s metal sound already captured could you share your profiles
Thank you again for your great insights and opinions on this process using the NAM profileing model

 

@izn444nz
@ItsFine
Hey guys having a bit of trouble getting the rendered file to the same sample length as the v2_0_0.wav in reaper would you have any tips please?

 

Try this.

 

@izn444nz
Thanks Brother That did the trick
my first attempt it gave me a output clip error so i Just lowered the render down a few db and it worked great
Thank you now i have some amp sims to capture

 

Last edited: Aug 9, 2023

I am 100% sure you cant pick out a "profiler" = Tonex Kemper NAM QC GE200 etc against a modeling unit like Fractal Helix Boss GT1000 in ablind test based on feel amnd much less based on sound
That is if i made them sound exactly the same using the same amp and same IR
All that BS talk about feel is all in your BRAIN = PLACEBO (You already made up your mind and therefore think it is so) nothing else
some people say it is about latency well there is no way a human ear can hear very low latency agaisnt a real amp as real amps also have latency.
B.t.w i have very good ear myself after many many years of eartraining and speaking of that what might sound good to you might sound crap to me and many others aswell.
I also play many different styles almost everything from jazz standards to dream theater and of course i have many different guitars that i use for those styles
So what sounds good is very personal and also about playing style some sound you may think sound crap but it can be very useful for a certain kind of music.

 

Last edited: Aug 9, 2023

tRiLlIon THX!!!, i'm enjoyin' your captures a lot, wanna play everything live, i'll start to build my power unit and the speakers tonight. I wonder if u know which could be the best option for an absolute plain amp in order to get out the audio interface sound without distorting it. Thx a lot!

 

Thx a lot.

 

Maybe we have a different concept of what "feel" is. To me, feel is what I get when I play my amp through a cabinet in the room (the cabinet part being the most important) and that's totally different from what a modeller/profiler try to achieve.

In my opinion, based on comparisons with real amps, most modellers do a great job simulating amp dynamics, some better than others (To me, Mooer modelling is pretty bad, it doesn´t have Power Amp modelling and the MNRS Profiliing tech and Pre amp modeling is based on EQ match over a very basic distortion algorithm).

Your gain staging and how you are dialing it makes all the difference. You can't dial a modeller with the same settings as the amp and expect it to sound and respond the same as the amp. Sometimes profilers hit the sweet spot because the tones are dialed and captured in a way it sounds "alive" to you and your liking but I can't hear this "magic feel" you say profilers have beyond modellers, even comparing captures and modelling with a real amp through the same IR and speakers side by side.

But of course, everyone have different experiences with gear so, be it a modeller, profiler or anything else, let's enjoy all this!

 

zero chance sims can behave like real amps, there are signal paths in series and parallel which are to make note of and then you have the idea of pre amp to amp and traditional directions your guitar signal flows not to forget the other hardware simulations such as diode, asymmetrical clipping, symmetrical clipping etc etc

I have a method in which I get my amps to sound real and feel real, infect any sim can feel like neural dsp, its simple, the first thing to note is you need a compressor before entering a sim, crank the input on it until you feel ok and its not too bloated and pumping too much bass or low end, then you need both tube and tape emulation to really get that huge amp feel , I use the free chowtape and hornet tube plugs, work like a charm...finally at this point I may want a boost od or and a gate, again, free, you an use the chowcantour, its amazing, a clone pedal free and probably the best one out there..then I get to the sim..I now have the control of levels, gain, punch and even type of tubes I hot rod my sim with...any sim will do.

I do have the softube Marshall suite and I get any tone from them

 

You can play virtually every rig known to men and the dude is like:

 

nevermind ...issue solved

 

Last edited: Aug 18, 2023

i'm a big fan of STL tonehub amps and plugins in general, so is it possible to use neural amp to make my own captures?

 

Added a few captures to tonehunt
https://tonehunt.org/
Installed Anaconda 3 Local did the captures using the GPU
set the epochs to 250 the ESR's came out great
enjoy

 

I'm really enjoying all these new developments and they will probably dominate in the future, but a Kemper is so easy to use with Rig Manager and it's still my go-to recording device in the studio. Actually, NAM is cool for lo-fi and dirtying up recorded sounds and I mainly use the pedals & outboard profiles for this, and I even use the drive/fuzz NAM pedals to reamp through the Kemper.

Flexibility is the name of the game with all this latest amp tech

 

Last edited: Aug 23, 2023

The capturing process is going a bit above my head, but if anyone finds the time to try it: I would like to hear a basic NAM capture of the Neural DSP Tone King Imperial.