And or money bro

 

Buying a Mac isn't going to make a UAD any better. I tried 3 or 4 of them by buying them, and then returning them when each one did not work correctly with a 2 year old fully loaded Macbook Pro. I ended up going back to Motu, because one of the UAD's showed up DOA. Dead as a doornail. When I finally spoke with them at tech support; they acted like it was no big deal, happens all the time just send it back, etc. I wasted about a month screwing around with them and was done for good. If this was "better than windows", I can only imagine.

This is kind of what I was alluding to. Was there any big problem with the products, on the day before their plugin situation came to be known?
I only know one person irl who owns and uses their interfaces, and he recommended getting one to me. He never even mentioned anything about plugins, or problems with the interface. At the time, we had been talking about DACs.

You see this kind of thing happen, and often it is about hardware with some software component like a plugin; then something happens with the computer side of it and people think they got screwed. Hardware accelerated DSP gear is almost a never winning route if the results of Moore's Law is going to piss you off. Even UAD has admitted this basically; by creating native plugins which run fine because our CPU's have become so resources-rich. Until you even get to something like an X-16 or satellites, the unit will "run out of DSP" on even medium sized projects with normal use of plugins. So now people are using the same thing some people spent thousands of dollars on, but for 20 bucks a month.

People seem to believe such "investments" exist. They were the old loyal customer and the new guys are getting over, because the company used the first customers money to continue improving their product. Somehow buying a unit early is mistaken from some 2000$ foray into the world of Venture Capitalism. This is probably what Nexus3 types of users think too, when something they bought into for 4000$ gets cracked. Or UVI customers who bought stuff, only to see a month later them switch to a subscription model for 20$ a month.

Protools TDM, anyone? https://manualzz.com/doc/40076937/pro-tools-iii-review
"Surely they wouldn't screw their customers like this, would they?" Yeah, right.

 

The reason is, that people confuse speculation with investing.
This is why I set "investment" in upquotes.

Buying a product (or in this case an information ) because you bet on the increase of the nominal value of it is not investing but speculation. One should act differently here.

 

I knew exactly what you meant. If I had a 10$ a day coffee habit; i'm pretty sure that does not make me a Starbucks shareholder.

The protools TDM link I put had their employee quoted as " if you bought this and will turn a profit from the investment in the next 6-12 months" it would be a good investment. What he was not saying, was that your $20,000 TDM system and farm cards won't even fit in a brand new Mac. For them to do these things is the rule, not the exception.

 

As an RME user, and someone who's gone through a long line of interfaces from various companies, I can confidently say that you won't find anything better for a Windows systems.

MOTU seems to work for some, and for others it doesn't work at all. MOTU is also a company that added Windows support later on, so I wouldn't say they're Windows support is as rock-solid as RME's (although RME's record isn't a 100% perfect either, but it's probably as good as it gets).

Apogee did add Windows support for their lower-end interfaces a couple of years ago, but then they also removed a bunch of interfaces from the market. I think the only ones they produce now are the Symphony Desktop (with Windows support), and the Symphony I/O (Mac-only). But you are right, Apogee could be a valid DSP ecosystem that works well with Windows machines. They have been adding more plug-ins lately as well.

That's not what I meant. What I meant is that if you want to have a reliable setup with UAD hardware and software, Windows is out of the question. I also thought the conversation was strictly about DSP ecosystems, and not just any audio interfaces in general. Yes, RME has DSP in their Fireface-series of interfaces, but it's basically only a few basic effects. I still use them every day and am very thankful they are included, but it's nothing like UAD or Antelope.

 

If you own their audio interfaces? Do you have to subscribe to own the plugins or can you still buy them separately?

For fuck sake this getting worse than the video game industry with their Battle Pass FOMO up the ass bullshit.

What happened to buying something, owning it and being allowed to use it as you see fit. Private equity is raping consumers in the ass. :/

 

Ok so here's the deal.
They've divided their plugins into 2 separate products: DSP "Real time" plugins and the Native plugins.
They're the exact same plugin but in different format.
You can still buy the DSP plugins to perpetual license. They attach to the interface you buy (sidenote, you can't use a DSP plugin on multiple antelope interfaces you own, you gotta buy the plugin twice in that scenario. That alone should give a clue about Antelopes business style).
People who bought DSP plugins aren't allowed access to the native versions, but they can still use the DSP plugins as before.
The issue for me is that the DSP plugins have never worked inside my DAW like promised. They have a bridge plugin called AFX2DAW (which they charged $200 for!) that's supposed to allow you to mix in your DAW using the Antelope plugins (and not just record with the plugins on the way in). When I bought the interface 2 yrs ago it was part of their campaign that you can use the FX in the DAW.
But it's buggy as fuck. And there's countless antelope users who report that AFX2DAW is too glitchy and unreliable and they gave up on it, sound dropouts etc. It's consensus that it has been a failure.

Rather than fix AFX2DAW, they've moved on to releasing Native plugins, and charge DSP plugin owners for it too.
Native is the solution to the AFX2DAW issues.
I don't think it's too much to ask for the plugins that I BOUGHT to be available to me as a free update in native format. I wouldn't expect all their native plugins for free, but I at least expect the ones that I paid for. I spent hundreds of dollars on their plugins (beyond just the ones included in buying the interface originally)

This is pretty typical behaviour of Antelope, they're happy abandon current products in favour of new releases, turning current products into legacy products quickly and dropping support. They've done it repeatedly. So this is in line with their usual behaviour.

This is why the native thing is so irritating. It feels like they've passed the price of poor/slow software development onto the customer.

They say they're completely separate products, yet on the native subscription page when you click on the plugin links they go to the DSP plugin pages.
I guess not so separate then.

From what I'm reading in this thread, apparently it's common knowledge that some companies just don't work on Windows even though they market it that way. Well that's news to me. I guess I'm the fool.

Researching before you buy is important, that's why Antelope deleting customer comments on Facebook on YouTube is a big deal, and that's why I'm posting it here where they can't control it.

 

Last edited: Jul 13, 2023

Anybody who knows about the history of Aardvark would think carefully about this company.

 

Last edited: Jul 13, 2023

Same about
Markus Krause Tone2/ReFX (collab)
But most ppl forget or don't even know ... until they have to contact support, resell and such troubles.

When you "invest" money, ALWAYS check WHO is behind.

 

I've seen in the past that the plugins are actually created by overloud. I don't think we are missing much.

 

Sooooooooo, I have been through the Ringer with Antelope. Between Having to get my D4 PreAmps replaced to Not being able to use the MIC MODELING Software on Monterey or Ventura. I Bought the Microphone for this specific Reason and now its sitting in its case. They are Horrible as far as Value and Customer Service. I will Say I did get 1 Year Subscription on My account as I have Purchased almost all of the Plugins from the Bundle. I will say the ANtelope Plugins Never really worked though AFX2DAW. There was always Latency that made them completely unusable or It was HORRIBLY CHOPPY. I mean Complete Shit. I am excited to try the new Native plugins but this Sub model Blows and chances are Once my 1 year is up. That will be it for Antelope. I feel like I am getting ripped off having spent over 2500 between Software and Hardware with them. I am sure come next year I will not only have a new Interface but pretty damn sure it wont be an Antelope. The Sound is Great but not that great where Any other Interface in the 1000-1500 range could not provide.This is Really F'd Up and the last Straw. Its been 2+ years since Monterey came out and they cant get the Mics Modeling to work with it. BULLSHIT

 

This is a fair observation. If I buy a plugin for my Mac to use in Logic it is AU. But they want to give me an installer for an AAX to stick in Protools for free. On a completely different PC! What do they care what host you run it under? I can deactivate a iLok license and reactivate it on another computer, or save it to a flash drive and stick it into any computer I want. If they smooth something like this over, you might even keep buying their stuff; and it costs them literally nothing to do it.

 

I feel you haha

Exactly!!! This is what's so baffling to me. If they just linked the licenses of DSP plugins and Native plugins then I would be inspired to buy more plugins. The only reason I stopped buying them was because AFX2DAW didn't work.
It just seems like such a synergistically positive business move for Antelope where everybody wins: They get more money out of me, I get to finally use Antelope plugins, and trust is built between company and customer, which leads to positive word of mouth between engineers which leads to more customers.

In fact, it's such an obviously positive move that it makes their actual move so hard to figure out. Is it a philosophical problem? Greed? Low IQ? Low resources or capabilities? Or maybe they're focused on other things in life and just don't care or don't have time? I'm genuinely don't know

Instead, the move they chose fractures the relationship between customer and company, and therefore breaks the possibility of future transactions with existing customers, it makes word of mouth between engineers turn negative, and it leaves a huge stain on their public reputation which they had built back over the past 5 yrs after a negative bunch of years before that.

It's a shame cos they make good hardware. How they expected existing customers to pay for their plugins again is beyond me. The reality is that this just isn't a company that's ready for prime time

 

They have some great hardware as well but unfortunately it's just out of the average person's price range.

 

My 2C as an antelope owner.

I wanted the hardware for a number of reasons, lightweight, thunderbolt, best quality IO for the buck, (very happy with this), as much IO as is possible, 16 track with lightpipe (which admitedly I haven't used yet, but having used LP in past i'm 80/20 in successful liklyhood)

I'm not a big software effects person, I record live music, IE bands or acoustic instruments, vocal and guitar ect. I believe in trying to get as much from the take as is possible, if a lot is happening in the mix things could probably have been better earlier. That's not to say software FX aren't amazing, I'm sure they are, I just don't have much experience with them or desire to invest the $ or time. I'm sure some software units are better than others but the emporers new clothes come to mind.

So WRT the DSP, I had heard mixed opinions on the quality but when they had an all-in-one offer earlier this year I thought fuck it, It'll be interesting to be able to track with effects and see how it compares to the dry sound, maybe there are potential gains to be had at tracking, particularly for voice over work.I haven't had enough time to really answer these questions but I have had fun.

I never got the AFX2DAW as I was just able to reroute anything that wanted to be used in the mix via an outboard insert channel kind of setup. I had also heard mixed reviews on AFX2DAW and just figured it was a potential pain point, so stick with what works. AFX2DAW HAS to realtime bounce anyway, IIRC.

People who have bought antelope interfaces did so on the proviso that the interface was running the DSP. Creating native versions of the plugin totally defeats the point of using the DSP on the device.

It's absolutely crazy marketing, as evidenced by the backlash.To be honest Antelope aren't the most userfriendly and some of their software/hardware couplings are pretty smelly. TO run the mic emulations in the daw requires iLok and it does have limited support, I have an edge-note so I use the emulations on the device, this means I can't change emulation after the recording, which would've been a nice feature to test. If I had one of those duo or quad mics I would be frustrated. It would be really interesting excersise to be able to set up a Midside or Blumlein and then mess around with the polarity after the track had been recorded.

 

As a lot of people have stated the AFX2DAW is such a pain to work with and debatably broken that this approach is so anti consumer it might end the company. Short term I'm sure there will be a small injection of revenue but long term with policies like this I'll go elsewhere (RME or UAD) for my next interface. Their console software thing is just so amateur feeling/acting compared to UAD. I rarely use the onboard FX or AFX2DAW unless I'm taxing my CPU in a mix session which in 2023 is basically never. The plugins are fine but not so great that I'd NEED to use their neve emulations to the 100 other ones for example. Why waste that time and energy keeping my fingers crossed AFX2DAW will work.

My primary studio is running UAD and I use their plugins all the time. Both straight on the console and in the DAW because it's easy and works... for me anyway.... and they give you native of what you've already purchased which is obviously the right thing to do because it's easy to overload the onboard DSP so with native you can run as many as you want. Antelope not being able to see the forest through the trees has decided to do the opposite.

I think anyone whose previously purchased AFX2DAW should definitely get these for free as a show of goodwill from Antelope, but I guess that would be admitting publicly that's it totally broken.

I like the hardware I have and knock on wood it keeps working as expected for years to come because at the end of the day that's really all I care about.

Good luck to them because it seems like they've made their decision and are sticking to it.

 

Hey Barncore, yes I was one of the censored users and got kicked out of the their facebook group for simply asking not to be censored!

EVERYONE: PLEASE DO NOT BUY ANYTHING RELATED TO ANTELOPE AUDIO - THEY ARE THE MOST TOXIC COMPANY I'VE EVER DEALT WITH.

If this was a romantic relationship it would be labelled as abuse in my country and prosecuted. The utter gaslighting and censorship of their own customer base is quite frankly unbelievable.

There is also mounting evidence of them bribing people into participating in undeclared paid promotion. Avoid like the plague.

 

RME is perfect in every way. You could argue about the price, but I think the build quality justifies it, plus the never-ending software updates.

 

i own an Antelope Zen Go , i use it as my main sound interface for windows pc and i use it exclusively to track BASS GUITAR to the daw, the integrated free dsp plugins i hang on the input jack are amazing (the BAE 1073 , some comp and transformer/pre amp sims etc) so the Zen Go works for me here like a sophisticated pre-amp / DI pedal rig for tracking bass to daw. (their AMP/CAB sims are good too but i prefer to use others as vst) I don't need and don't use their AFX2DAW bs neither i need their native plugins at all because i have 3x UAD quads and a ton of uad plugins for mixing. The Antelope ZEN GO is amazing as a standalone pre amp device for tracking bass and their dsp plugins are not just "sound ok/alike" but they sound truly good. (and for vocals/mic too) I remember having purchased the Auto tune, tried it a few hours, and realized it was something i did not need at all, i have contacted support for refund and was refund with no problems. If you don't like some of thier product just don't buy it and don't use it.

 

Last edited: Jul 13, 2023

A lot of products which are mostly for "obvious commercial use" are like this. But it seems much more commonplace in recording/audio studio gear, and it's been like this forever. Things that need costly/expensive "upgrades" to products, only to get them to work the way they were supposed to in the first place. Even more, they will put units out onto the market for sale with issues where you go through the entire manual and other resources only to find out they do not do what you wanted it for, or as advertised. These things are always " will be solved in the next free update", even though they have no idea how to even do it (or would have already); if they even can,which are never free, but included in the next upgraded and more expensive unit. Nothing but a money grab. they think if you are already into them for 2K, you are captive to their product.