So basically I have been doing an internship at a top music studio in my area since last year. I showed up to sessions, they mostly wanted me to observe, cleanup, do errands (which i happily did), be respectful to singers, do proper mic placement, cable placement, etc menial tasks too like dishes/trash. I did all this, made some good connections there, enjoyed learning, and also an engineer there taught me pro tools and how to run a session by tracking his session! He was also an artist so it helped

However, the owner never liked me. First time we had a moment to talk, he asked me "so you like producing, what kind of music do you produce?". I told him, he then asked "and how many hit records have you tracked and produced". When I told him none, he said then "you can't call yourself a music producer, your not a producer I AM. I track vocals, build client relationships, direct songs from start to finish. Your not a music producer".

Then he walked away, I just suppressed how I felt as I figured well, I guess he's got a point. Being a mix engineer he doesn't play keys or make music, just tracks vocals. I create tracks from start to finish, mix and master, but have yet to create whole songs by mixing vocals. From then on, the owner got ruder.

Later, in our studios group chat, all client schedules were suddenly blocked. I asked another engineer if it was blocked for him, he said no other interns had the schedule blocked and to ask the owner. So I asked the owner, He said from now on ONLY message him directly to learn about client times So i can sit in on sessions and assist. Then I reach out to him later that week, ask him directly for the schedule, and he said NEVER reach out to him directly, always ask in the group chat. I then asked in the group chat, everyone ignored me.

Today, he officially banned me from the group chat and banned from the studio. Crazy part is all the other engineers were super nice to me, except the owner who everyone revered.

Good part to this sad story, is I made a studio connect/friend who owns his own home studio with really good gear/soundproofing and I can record in his place. I know internships are very expendable, especially unpaid like this one, But still don't know why the owner didn't like me when I did everything they asked. I guess it boils down to if they can see themselves working with you 24/7, and apparently the owner couldn't envision me there?

 

well, he sounds like a dick anyway. But if you didn't do anything wrong; it's probably their way of letting you know it was never turning into a real paying job for you anyway. That was possibly even determined long before you walked in the door. They will find someone else and do the same thing again, for free labor. Why are there "other interns"? And if you had produced "hit records", why would you be there, working like a janitor for free?

 

What if you did something rude and you are still not aware about it?

Face him by person, tell him you accept his decision but would like to know the real reason to learn the lesson, he should give a proper answer if he is a producer.

 

The music business is a cruel and hypocrite world filled with backstabbers and thieves. Sometime, our personality comme accross as attitude to others and that can be a part of the reason why he came at you that way. It could also be a test to see how well you would be able to react to this at a later moment or talk about it to other M.E. working there. As I said, it is a dirty dirty environment and there's more snakes and talking in peoples back in there then anywhere else and that is usually a sign of a lack of judgment or character when people have issues dealing with those sort of issues in a professional manner. When I started my career in '99, about 6 months after becoming the running recording engineer, we got a contract with a big pop star (from where I live). The sweetest person on the planet and I was pooor...like close to living in the street poor and working 16 hrs a day at the studio for 6 sometime 7 days a week. One day, one of the other client came to record the last adlib and throw a small get together in the studio as it was the end of the recording of their album so they brought a few friends and a lot of beer came in and other things in our Video production room. The little get together ended up finishing at about 3 am and I had the pop star coming in at 7 am to continue her weekly session with her team. So when everyone left, I gathered all the boose spread across the studio ( that studio was quite big) and put them all together close to the coffee machine to be able to bring them out the day after so they wouldn't see them. So I fell asleep on the couch and woke up at 6:52 am ( or about ) and realized what was about to happen. So frantically I started to run to the other end of the building to find a buggy, put all the beer box on it and bring it down the lift. I never made it past the elevator door as the security guard was there and asked me where I was going to put those bottles. I told him I would put them by the duck until my session end. He refused and I had to bring them back all to the studio and that's when the A&R and musical director come out of the elevator with me in front of them with a mountain of beer boxes. They threw me a few eagle eyes look and we all went in the studio. When I opened the door and was trying to get the cart in to get the bottles in the video room, the A&R started to say it smelled like beer ( I believe he was right ) and the Musical Director said how unprofessional that was. SO I opened all the studio windows and went to pile the boxes in another room.When I was done, the pop star was there happy and smiling as usual until they ''debriefed her'' in another room and she came back. From there on the Musical director started to boss me around and tried to teach me how to do my job and send some retarded lines like '' ok lets start recording, hopefully the M.E. know how to press on the space bar''. I remember feeling like the whole world was crushing on me until they just kept on to the point were I broke up and told them that I was not talking to them that way so to stay polite and respectful. He then proceeded to tell me how unprofessional it was for us to receive her in this environment and kept on with his sneaky attack. I remember at that point I told him he would be better off the studio or I would kick his ass out myself. He started laughing and I got up my chair and told him to erase that smile of his face or I would in a physical way. The Pop star came out of the booth and told us all to calm down. He then sat down in the back of the studio and shut up until they all left in the end of the afternoon. The pop star apologized for his behaviour before inviting me to her house outside the city. They came back for a week after that and broke the contract with the owner. The owner was not pissed at me as the Pop start defended me but he also told me that it was not the place to throw a party. I told him that with a 10,000$ check in their hand for their time, I was hardly in a position to tell them to go drink elsewhere and that we were not close to the gear anyways.

The whole point is, that was the beginning of the end for me there. I was over booked for over 6 months, I was tired and my attitude was not appropriate towards the Musical director even though everyone said he was out of his mind to talk to me like that. I also had the time of my life at the pop star house and she was soooo sweet. She offered me a big bowl of strawberries when I came in.

So the owner of the studio you were working at might have seen something you don't know about yourself. Something I was not aware about myself when starting to work there. Humility and being able to erase yourself completely from a session is a big big must for a recording studio. Someone that interact and make friends during studio sessions is not necessary...if you can understand what I mean. I know my face talk a lot and I don't even need to say a word and you know if I'm happy, I want to kiss you or I might want to punch you in the teeth. I'm that sort of guy. He might also thought from the get go that you did not understand your role when you said you were a producer which I could also understand even though I would think he was a dick to bring it up that way.

All of that to say, there is a million things that can happen in someones mind and usually, you need to be a bit unwell in the head to work in the music business. People are looking great but most of them are the worst piece of shit, hypocrites and douche bag I've ever met in my entire life. You weither become a lone wolf like myself and people think you're bitter for telling things how they are in the face of all the P.O.S. or you become the typical sweet little lamb and the yes man that the music business feed out off.

If I was you, I wouldn't over think it. Get in touch with the M.E. you worked with and ask them to write you a recommendation letter and get another internship until you feel you found your spot. There's millions of studios everywhere. Just move on and don't talk about the negative of that experience to other studio owners. It will start the experience with a bitter taste and you don't need that. It won't bring anything good out of it. Leave that experience in the past and just learn from it. If it look like shit, and smell like shit, it's probably shit. Now you know. So go out there and find better.

 

Dropped out of the "professional" music industry and got a job for 25 years in special education.
That job got me a pension: I paid 49% for it and the taxpayer 51%
Now I'm retired and can afford to do anything I want musically.
I don't have to kiss anyone's ass.
If people don't like it, f**k them
Heavy metal kazoo, anyone?

 

Welcome to the music business. Just learn from that experience and move on to bigger and better things.

 

lol musicians are dicks thats natural

 

I appreciate Martels Long story and everyone's advice, which I will heed. There were other interns because they were trying to weed out the "real engineers" from the wanna-be's. Out of 25 interns, I was the last to remain. Until they kicked me out and got a fresh batch, who they then hired some full time (paid) to be junior mix engineers. Learned a LOT from the engineers there, and realized when it comes to mixing after they quizzed me, I knew almost as much as they did, difference is they click VERY well with clients where I'm a bit introverted.

Mix engineers are essential, I feel a lot are underpaid for a lot of the work they do. The internship taught me I want to be an artist instead and producer (since the creation/arrangement aspect and songwriting is more enjoyable), not tracking vocals all day and tweaking them to perfection.

Probably I'm a bit unwell in the head to want to stay in the music industry lol, but I do. Better to be optimistic, this was just a stepping stone to something better, and it taught how to work in sessions, how to track vocals, how to mix to a commercial level in a studio setting, networking, and true success is a VERY strong work ethic and being yourself in a industry full of insecurity...
'

 

Sadly it's an industry that is as much about who you know as what you do. Networking is everything.
Oh, and you need to be prepared to give up everything else in your life.

 

If you do something wrong, violate company policy, etc. they will certainly let you know and will document it and have you sign your copy. With everyone walking around with a smartphone in their pocket now, if it is not legit reasons; they are not going to tell you the real reason. They will assume they are being recorded; so they can be hit with a wrongful termination suit, EEOC complaint, OSHA violation, and whatever else is applicable. A big company will not matter so much because they max out what they have to pay into unemployment insurance claims, so one more claimant does not even cost them more money. Some little company with 20 or 30 employees, like the one described; will even try to contest someone getting unemployment. There is no way they would be foolish enough to let you record them telling you that you did nothing wrong to be terminated for. Especially when their business is literally recording audio.

 

Now you know never to treat people like that when you become the boss of your own studio. Valuable lesson right there!

 

just meet him face to face, kick his ass in front of the clients and engineers, call it a day and move on!

 

That's exactly what I said when I got my first gig. ''The music business is a contact sport.''

 

The worker's acceptance of unpaid internship is the worst part of the story, IMHO.

 

That's just how it is when there's very little amount of spot to be filled with high ''rewards'' and a lot of people doing the line to have a shot at it. Just look at how semi-professional and college sport work. Same thing. Kids lose their whole life everyday because they dream of something they might not have the chance to achieve. What the story doesn't say is that most of the long term prolific are late bloomers and go the alternative path.

Without name dropping, there's a lot of your favourite M.E. that work 30 minutes on a mix when everything is set to perfection and only add their very small and useless ''taste'' to the mix. and more often then not, they only put their name on the mix after listening to the assistant mix without touching a single thing. As I said, it's a filthy world.

It's easy to do a great mix or a great master when everything is perfect from the get go. It's another thing to work with up and coming artists and help them develop their sound to complete their first album and get nominated. You can usually recognize the big kunts as they would spew a ''shit in shit out'' every now and then.

That's night and day, really.

But we all recognize the big cheese and forget about the real work that is being done by the kids that work their ass off to bring those artists project to fruition.

 

it could be but...

World is not only a place for sharks seeking for a revenge (as netflix and other BS tv show represent), sometime what seems to be black is actually white and there is a possibility the owner is a good guy just a bit weird, who knows, politely ask him without doing tv fiction tricks.
Did we even consider OP was wrong in a first place, listening both side is the only way to know.

There is a reason why a Judge can't judge himself in a court.

 

I'm sorry that happened to you, but I'm pretty sure he didn't like the way you talk or your tone and that is enough a reason for someone to dislike others. I know it didn't make sense, but a lot of like, dislike, love, hate are all never make any sense but it happens anyway. "Not much, just trying this and that, I hope I can make something as cool as yours one day, please teach me" probably what he wanted to hear and you are in the wrong there for not giving him that or anything equivalent. You were suppose to make it about him, not about you. You win or your learn, you wanted to win that day. Yeah, it's ass-kissing, but if that's the unspoken rule he set at his studio, who are you to say otherwise right ? after all you are the one that wanted to be there. One more thing, it is not smart to reveal stuff about your work like that too doesn't matter being asked or not, even your date will lose interest. However humble you want it to sound, it will always sound like a show-off, and nobody likes a show-off. Your music related stuff is only relevant if it is heard from a 3rd party.

 

i meant that when i posted "but if you didn't do anything wrong", leaving the door open for the 50% chance that is exactly what happened.

But I do very much mean it about people not telling you their reasons for doing things. The guy isn't going to say "we have a fresh batch of you free janitors every semester because I also sell your professor coke". Group chat? Sounds like an episode of Hell's Kitchen. Another one you won't ever hear is " I just needed you to break back into the mac we have running Protools because the last guy working this gig won't give me the passwords until I pay him the 8 weeks of wages I am already behind". Lots of small business owners do some very shady things, and many studios are no different.

 

Last edited: Jul 14, 2023

You know that scene in breaking bad where they take the giant magnet and erase the hard drives? Well....

After you're done doing that - crazy glue the locks and leave some choice reviews of the studio on Yelp.

 

Welcome to the world of asshats and douche bags.

Remember this when you are the a position of power, small group politics is the one reason people dream of retiring early. So when you are the boss do your best to find out for yourself what is true when you hear all the whining and backbiting coming from those under you about each other be objective.