Apple been pushing the technology and forcing artists to make their music in ATMOS format for their hardware, that VR thingy. Imagine all the visuals in 3D but then the sound will be stereo, it doesn't make sense. So they gotta push it to make the hardware getting sales. I also agree that ATMOS for film and video games is the next necessary step for advancement but it will be bad for music.

One question though, is it possible to dance to music with that VR thing with all the headtracker stuff making things "moving" but only in your head ? it should make people dizzy, no ? sounds dangerous to me.

 

it is, unless you have a norm or guideline to mix properly on atmos.... which, to my understand, isn't there yet (hence why also it makes no sense, because it's best advantage is to add sound source for space distribution in movies)

 

Dolby 5.1 or DTS doesn't make sense either for music distro. However it can enhance the experience, but only when originally dealing with the music mix from a purely surround sound perspective. Simply placing instruments on a virtual stage is not enough. The stage perception (musician, or audience) first needs to be decided upon and adhered to through the end of the project. So many tracks I have heard mixed in surround seem to take liberties with this basic concept mixing up the two like they are interchangeable - they're not. Things start going south very quickly when imaging perspective goes out the window. With stereo mixes, imaging is basically (phase modification tools aside) left/right or x/y - with surround mixes you have left/right/depth or x,y,z. That 3rd dimension is what can muck up a mix without even turning a single knob on an eq, limiter, or channel strip.

As far as shelling out big bucks for a dedicated 5.1 setup, it's way easier to setup a modestly priced 5.1 system and make it viable than it is to setup a system to deal with true atmos. Although there are varying degrees to which a 5.1 install can be taken, and cost rises in direct correlation to degree.

 

speaking for audio, actually if you get virtual speaker setup in virtual living room, you wouldn't mind having those sound sources static to the room and not static to your head, it's what Waves NX or Klang immersive IEM do

 

This sounds like apple jumping in bed early with dolby to consummate their corporate capitalist relationship, and to begin a whole new era of planned industrial obsolescence. I look at this whole atmos thing in the same way I look at the AI thing. We were all born with the right of free will - to think and act according to our own inner compasses. One can either allow themselves to be swayed by corporate industrial hype and go with the flow, or see things in a clearer light and recognize a rouse when presented with one. I'm not saying that the atmos "immersion" experience is fake or doesn't work. What I am saying is that it is right to question anything being pushed on you forcibly. And, if it doesn't make sense then don't bother using it. The only way any new tech will have any sort of longevity is if it carves itself a share of the general public market place. Otherwise it's just another novelty item here today, gone tomorrow.

but, really... Tune out the industry telling you atmos is the next big thing for a minute... Ask yourself, "Why is atmos the next necessary step"? I makes some sense for theatrical settings, but large multi-element audio arrays have existed in theaters for decades. How much is the tech actually used in theatrical releases and who notices? For the general public most all of this goes right over their heads (no pun intended).

 

Last edited: Jun 19, 2023

I think you are pretty close there. They are probably dragging out Logic 11 (or whatever they will ultimately call it), until they can adhere to their 5 years of support rule for remaining Intel machines. They could develop it entirely for Silicon, get everyone to buy/upgrade to new, just in time for Cubase 18. (10.5 updates were released for both at around the same time, just to illustrate that Cubase is really much more than 3x the price of Logic). 10.6 update was meaningless, 10.7 was the hyped inclusion of Dolby Atmos; and I would not expect any other major developments before "11" either.

But they aren't "hopping early" towards anyone like some little vendors. They do whatever they want, and let them deal with the changes.

 

to be fair I have the Sony HT-A9 Atmos system. It's by no means on par with ceiling mounted speakers and 4 surrounds but it does probably the best job of any 4 speaker system on the market at creating a sound bubble around you and is by far the best at home surround experience i've ever had.

Spatial audio on headphones to me, doesn't work at all. It doesn't trick my ears into thinking things are behind or above me. Even with the ear calibration Apple did. It just doesn't work at all on either AirPod Pro or AirPod Max for me. So I turn it off and always listen to the stereo mix. However, stereo music on the HT-A9 sounds pretty naff to be honest, Atmos tracks on the other hand sound great.

It is a fairly niche experience to have that setup, the HT-A9 are cheaper than a proper Atmos setup but still expensive, so it's mad to be that my Apple Music subscription gives access to such a niche thing. But honestly some of my most raw, fun and exciting listening experiences of the last 20 years have been Atmos mixed tracks on those speakers. I'm all for it continuing and mixers getting better at it - and now it's built into Logic for free, it should be easier.

 

You're miles off with this take.

 

then enlighten us all please sir

 

When I started buying records as a kid, Quadraphonia was long dead, but still occasionally mentioned on some of the record sleeves.

It was always perfectly clear why it had failed. I hardly ever saw a pair of speakers correctly positioned for stereo in an average Joe's home. When the big push for surround happened, around 25 years after the first failure, it was quite hillarious seeing some of those people struggling with six boxes. And back then many people still listened to music predominantly on home (more or less Hi-Fi) systems, not through headphones, laptops etc. like today.

It was one time in my life when I felt like a psychic, perfectly confident in my ability to predict the future. And now, another 25 years later, it's happening again. I get chuckles every time I hear the words "immersive" or "Atmos".

 

Last edited: Jun 17, 2023

there's still pictures of "producers" struggling to place their KRK pair correctly all over the internet, pretty sure everyone atleast saw them once.

 

it's a waste of time stereo is more than enough

 

Screw that, all recorded music went downhill after mono quit being the standard. I mean, if gawd wanted us to listen to crap in stereo it would have given us two ea--
Oh, wait no. Nevermind.

 

My real name is Fisnik The Magnificent (why my parents gave me that middle name will always remain a mystery to me as they died shortly after my birth near Ksamil, Albania in 1956 in a freak cow milking incident where the cow my mother was working on suddenly fell dead, falling on top of her, and as my father tried to come to her rescue was also crushed to death by a cow that also died which was standing next in line in the barn that fateful day). I am a hobby music producing enthusiast and a professional psychic by trade. My two predictions that I shall share today (for free) and which will surely of course come to pass are...1) Dolby Atmos will never ever take off commercially as the average Jill and Joe won't fork out the cash for such a system, would rather listen and watch viral Tic Tok content on crappy earbuds they currently use and would rather spend their money on vaped cannabis and the next new smart phone, Atmos being only used commercially in movie theatres. 2) Xupito's beloved pet ferret named Itzel will enrich his life by inadvertently picking the numbers of this year's El Gordo Navidad lottery when Itzel shits on his shoulder while they are on line to buy his ticket (the two are inseparable) letting the very beautiful woman in the blue dress who is also there to buy a ticket step ahead of him (you will check out her great, round ass) so he can try to embarringly clean the poop off of his favorite Iggy Pop t-shirt. His number is the winner, and with his earnings can finally afford that Dolby Atmos system that he always wanted.

@Xupito

 

Last edited: Jun 17, 2023

Because it's all just smoke and mirrors being used in an attempt to simulate an immersive experience rather than the actual experience itself.

 

When I got my new Neumann KH120II's, I sold my surround receiver, my old surround speaker system, my blu-ray player and blu-ray movie collection.
Saw them as obsolete...
Besides, with all the gear I have now there's no time to watch movies.

 

because almost all the digital implementations of spatial audio are a complete joke. the downmix from multichannel to stereo, on a professional enviroment, puts that on evidence: it is just a gameplay of levels 99% of the time (and i tell it as someone who learnt about multichannel mixing at my university).

on the other hand a complete, properly setup, listening experience to mix is on another level: i remember one of my former professors gave us like a demo of how pink floyd's ABITW album sounded like with a quadraphonic setup, and that shit would be trippy as hell if you were on drugs.

 

waters stirred

 

I would break it down to "for music: If you can't do it properly in multichannel, stick with a stereopair where you sit in the sweet spot."
The main issue with music on multichannelsetup is the center. They tend to be bad on consumer side. And that's the most important speaker.
In a proper multichannel mix made for decent multichannelsetups there is a lot going on on the center. But because mixing enineers know how bad they can be they barely use them. Like when you use dts neo 6 music for upmixing its the same. Practicly no center used. Its different with dolby pro logic II music, dolby does it the right way.
But here comes the trouble: What if the center is not properly phase alligned? What if its level is wrong? That fcks up the whole mix. And I havent even begun with the LFE and what that would do if alligned badly. With theatrical mixes its not that important, as the dialog doesnt have to be in phase with the rest, its ok if its some db louder and the lfe is only used for sfx.
So if things were done right on consumer side, I mean, if consumers would follow dolby standards when setting up their 5.1, 7.1 or 7.4.1 setups we would live in a perfect world where multichannel music and multichannel theatrical listening would coexist in perfect harmony.
But as you said: Who has such dedicated music and/or home cinema rooms?
And besides that, who has the know how?
I'm in the industry for decades now and setting up my livingroom in multichannel (7.1 that is, we're not even talking about cieling) without risking a divorce is hard work where everything I've learned over the years is badly needed and where even I have to improvise and change things back and forth until stuff works.
That is absolutely nothing even enthusiats with a lot of time on their hand and the will to learn could do on a weekend.
So we can say multichannel is as dead as it always was, but now the corpse has an Atmos logo to sell tablets (!!) and ridiculously priced soundbars.
(PS: My samsung tablet came dolby atmos certified. when I enable dolby atmos mode it pukes a shitty reverb over everything that comes out of its speakers. Its so awesome I could scream in agony.)

 

Once someone creates an accurate headphone simulation tuned to a very good pair of headphones it could be much easier to compose and mix. This should also require customization for your head (and possibly others in the studio). To date, the results are interesting but certainly not accurate.

This will certainly not be inexpensive at entry. It is more realistic that a large speaker array.

Accurate headphone listening, composition, and overall listening for end users in headphones should be the target.

Just my 2 cents