Good afternoon, everyone! New user here, and I've been trying to figure something out recently. I appreciate your time.

I'm trying to replicate a certain horn sound - specifically synth trumpets used in this BBC children's program from the 80's. It's called Muzzy In Gondoland - Here are some timestamps for when these trumpets appear [00:00, 00:40, 00:48, 01:29.] It's a beautiful sound, imo.

I'm not great with synthesis, but I assume this is a basic subtractive sound shaped by a filtering envelope - in addition to external processing, the TV rip, digital upload, etc. I haven't been satisfied with my results, though. I have some analog emulations from Arturia and Roland, as well as some of u-He's instruments. I'm sure this sound can be reproduced with those tools.

I'm also curious about the hardware used, although I don't know much about music hardware, either. Would this have been made on a Juno? For context - Muzzy In Gondoland aired in 1986 and its music was written by Peter Shade. I can't pull up receipts right now, but I've definitely seen other BBC programming from the 80's - programming featuring music NOT composed by Peter Shade - that sounds like it came from the same world as Muzzy. I've also listened to some of Peter Shade's other projects - i.e. music from Henry's Cat - and none of it sounds like this BBC special. This synthesized, "psychedelic" sound was specifically a BBC thing, it seems. This observation is probably obvious, but I assume the music for their many programs was all produced in one studio with only a few pieces of hardware.

This is probably an odd case. Regardless, would appreciate any info/insight - thank you for your time!
Adie

 

Whats make you think its a synth trumpet? It sound like a real trumpet layered with a sawtooth.

 

Perhaps the first one may sound like done with a synth but the rest I have the same opinion than suggested by Axvap.

For your purpose try the Triton VST as it has very good trumpet sounds of that kind, even the M1 could be good for you. I find them more appropriate in this case but concerning VST´s you can try the Roland XV-5080 and Brass SRX Module trumpet sounds.

Also you can look for Sample libraries, check if someone is provided with your DAW or a Kontakt one (between many otheres: Chris Hein Horns, Spitfire Symphonic Brass, Kirk Hunter Concert Bras, CineBrass Complete Bundle, EastWest Hollywood Brass GoldX, Symphobia 1 by Project SAM, MOJO 2 by Vir2, Fanfare by Sample Logic, Analog Brass and Winds by Output.)

You can find an useful trumpet sound of that kind in many hardware devices

 

Thanks to both of you! Dr. Floyd, I will definitely try Triton/the other Roland options you mentioned.

And Axvap, I also think you're right. It doesn't sound like a real trumpet to my ears - it might be - but that confusion is likely what was fooling me. I don't know why I jumped to the conclusion that it must have been synthesized.

I will try layering in a Triton sound with a sample from Kontakt and a sawtooth/synth underneath.

 

Listening to several spots I'm pretty sure it's done by synth.
Sawtooth waveform, ADSR on both VCO and (a bit) VCF, slow attack, experiment from here.

 

To the extent that it is a synth trumpet, this one sounds close:
Starts at 1:17. Technically, it's supposed to immitate a french horn, but it's close enough.

 

I haven't done any of the more analytical listening to the samples you guys have already. But I was just going to mention that with the time frame of the original recording, and what digital synths were available at the time; I would "guess" and take a look into the DX7 brass sounds. There are a number of presets in the Arturia V which have some of the characteristics. The Kawai K1, Roland D-50 and Korg M1 were all released too late; while the DX7's 1983 release date make it my suspect.
Options were rather limited.

 

Last edited: Mar 11, 2023

Think its M1 Korg

 

Start off with twin saws and you can't go wrong. I could have something virtually identical tweaked to go, in 5 minutes or less, on my JX3P.

 

Since it was aired in 80s they used AKAI and E-MU samplers, I think the confusion comes due to used chords and it does sound artificial in those samplers. But I bet its layered, my closes guess its Fairlight CMI, in Arturia you can find a patch Duohorn and it is from that era. Otherways use Roland VSTis or look for a brass patches in softsynths as mentioned above, you will get close in any case.

 

Last edited: Mar 11, 2023

You do understand how expensive (and very exclusively available) a Fairlight was. I highly doubt it. The M1 release date was 87/88, same as D-50 and K1, and K4; ruling them out. Emax release date was 88. Emu Emulator date being 1981 is certainly possible. I like this stuff, and don't care about the actual sound. (other than it does sound digital to me).

 

Last edited: Mar 11, 2023

The one at 0:40 definitely sounds like a DX7. Matter of fact, most of them sound like a DX7

 

If someone had some money for gear in 1985; DX7 for brass, orchestra stuff would have been go-to for many. But still realistic money, not 8000$ for a Emulator money. And then a Fairlight?

 

Last edited: Mar 12, 2023

Its BBC aired, think Radiophonic Workshop, they had all kind of experimental and expensive gears back then. Shure it was used mainly for sound effects for DrWho but they also allowed freelancer composers to use it. Again, to my ear it sound synthetic but with a blend from a real instruments buried inside the synth brass, If listen closely you can hear loop points on the last note on 00:40 it sound like a recorder and in 00:48 each note have a different trumpet attack. I don't think they wanted to do something overly complicated for a kids program, it's not that kind of budget and since it all was done on tapes I recon it has do be done on the same unit. What kind of unit allow you to blend real instruments with a synth? Obviously a sampler. Fairlight could do that, and I would be surprised if BBC RW didn't have one. But ofcourse EMU was waaaay more affordable. Now, after I've listened it with headphones on I came to think that they've changed the volume on the blended instruments in each passage while leaving the synth brass as the main sound so it shifts from overly synthetic to more of a natural trumpet, specially at 00:48.

 

These tips/insights are excellent, thanks everyone! Lots of things to try - DX7 and Fairlight/Emulator included. Axvap, I also think the BBC factor is important. Not very interesting info but I was reading up on Radiophonic Workshop/Maida Vale this morning and have found evidence that the Workshop might've had a Fairlight in use by the time Muzzy In Gondoland released. Specifically have found a quote from Peter Howell, a composer who worked on Dr. Who, talking about using one. Can't source the date for that quote but he would've started at BBC in 1979. So, don't want to rule the Fairlight out.

Also, loads of evidence that Yamaha DX7 was used extensively, and that seems to be popular consensus in the thread. Synthi and PPG Wave as well mentioned as well, but that's now outside the bounds of this topic.

 

I personally wouldn't start with DX7 as there is clear filter resonance on each brass attack note. DX7 had no filter, none of FM synths of time had if I remember it right. That is in case you want it like perfectly exact, but you might find something similar in FM that you would like more. Again, its a pretty simple sound and whatever route you take you'll get it close.

 

Now that's analysis and narrowing down, good thought dude

 

it has to be a DX7

 

Last edited: Mar 14, 2023

If you like to make Trumpet/Brass with a synth then this link (https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/synthesizing-brass-instruments) may help you, they are relevant because they explain the basic concepts to do it (and much more) and that will help you in the future.

Do not break your head with it, just bear in mind all here posted and soon you will find trumpet sounds you may find useful.

Besides pure Sampled Sounds, take a look of what FM, PCM, VA, Wave based, or any other advanced Synth Techniques are able to do without effort.

Subtractive synthesis is really not the best option, and by sure FM synths like the DX-7 and no need to mention more advanced FM synthesizers.

Anyway even the older classical subtractive synths may be able to do the work you seems to need [Brass Synthesis On A Minimoog (soundonsound.com)].

Even you can achieve your goal and emulate that kind of sounds easily I suggest to go further to improve and adjust the sounds to your taste and needs, be creative, be yourself, be unique.

BE PATIENT AND...GOOD LUCK.

 

Last edited: Mar 14, 2023

I hope you may find here some synth useful for your purpose....

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Last edited: Mar 14, 2023