though some digital tools are quite hard (if at all possible) to replicate in analog, such as spectral dynamics, linear multiband compression etc...

 

Those Type of Plugins that are emulating analag stuff are more likely for ppl that know how to mix/master songs.
Because if your mix isnt good/perfect you will not really get the best out of it with those plugins. You didnt even can hear the difference when you are not that experienced.

A very good example for that are some analog emulated EQ's. Some of them are really good for the high end or Low end. They are adding some color and not sounding that harsh if you boost some frequencys.

And if you say you dont get that, then you arent that experienced when it comes to mixing. Like i said you need a really good mix to use those type of plugins in the right way. Sure you can just crank up a knob and you will hear something but thats not the point when you use something like this.

 

I'd call that innovation, but at the basic level popular music is mainly based around analog concepts.

 

Last edited: Jan 11, 2023

Is there a video comparing analog and digital sounds? Plugin emulation vs analog gear.

 

At 12:36
Related example how less choice can be better.

 

Thanks tzzsmk for comming up with this thread that touches an important philosophical topic, "how technology changes art?"

I would like to deepen on two concepts that many times appeared in this post, "Nostalgia" and "Harshness"

Through the thread I felt like that vintage emulations plugins were often characterized in a despective way as nostalgia machines, like "The vintage thing is a marketing trick cos it sells if you say that your plugin help you to sound like the beatles", that could be, but thats a pretty shallow and reductionist approach that doesn't explain the huge market of vintage emulations. More than the superficial nostalgia I think that the existence of that emulations is justified and grounded on tradition. Many vintage hardware has passed the test of time cos with them people have created sound masterpieces and themselves have become classics, and like Shakespeare probably will be never out fashion, people will be using Pultecs, Neves 1071, or plugins inspired in those surely in 2123 too. People care more or less about tradition, and thats part of the diversity, probably a rock producer will be more interested in that vintage emulations cos they will get her closer to the sound of their fathers, but that doesnt mean that she will be less innovative, cos she will bring that "vintage" to the actual context surely using that emulations along with digital based plugins.

Some people also said that those analog emulations are pointless cos back in the 70's the producers dreamed for the "clean" production of the nowdays, about that id say that: ok some pop producers maybe wanted that, but some others used that "harshness" to create masterpieces in genres like punk. The "harshness" is a form of expression just like the "lushness", maybe the harsh based music sell much less than the lush music nowdays, but thats up to the creator and what he wants to comunicate, and if the analog emulations help him to reach that vintage harshness they're really useful.

 

Yeah, right but we should go down deep as the Planck numbers to get the highest possible sampling resolution in this universe.

Oh, that wonderful analogue mechanical warmth! Nothing compared to the bloody digital harshness!

 

Last edited: Jan 11, 2023

Yes, I saw some, Arturia and Dexed for sure, but there should be many others, google them.

 

I think I disagree.
At root everything might be digital, but analog is not an illusion, but a RESULT of digital.
Digital builds analog.
IF you want to say that analog is an illusion, then you must accept that digital is also an illusion.

Philosophy, done properly, self-destructs.- Taken

Only if you cheat, by excluding some philosophies, can you make any claim of anything via philosophy.
Any good philosopher can destroy any other philosopher.
Philosophy is a tool of destruction to challenge everything.
No answers can be confirmed by philosophy.
They may be proposed, but something OUTSIDE philosophy must validate them.
That something outside philosophy, is nature, but we only know and only CAN know a part and parts of nature.
So, let us not be too arrogant about what is illusion and what is real...

 

You can save your patch and the osc's don't drift (unless you tell them).

 

but then your quote "implies" people who know how to mix, must use - or cannot ignore, such plugins to make good mixes?
I mean, an experienced mixer knows what to reach for, can't argue about that, but do they have to use analog emulations, or could they frankly achieve "better" (really a wrong word as music is often subjective) results not using those vintage emulations?
that's one of main thoughts of this thread we're discussing here

better from usability, not sound-wise,
actually that Dan's video was one of the inspirations I decided to start this thread,
because in his example, having such Fabfilter Q preset, would be as fast as using different plugin with fewer knobs, but with added benefit of being able to adjust it,

and the important another question it raises is:
do people actually want to know what the plugin is doing, or are they happy with how it sounds when they "randomly" twist its controls?

PS: FUN FACT, Andrew just released a video today early morning on his YT pointing at this weirdness, is that a coincidence, or did he see my thread here yesterday?

 

I don't agree at all. Even if those tools are digital, i follow the @Zenarcist line of thinking; There are physics, electronics, and other "analog" concepts behind a MB compressor, for example. and the end result is always be analog: the speakers (transient response, frequency distribution, dynamic range, etc). Those tools exist ONLY on the digital domain, you're correct, they are digital. But i don't think the way we should see and manage those tools is very different than any other gear, analog or digital. The easiness, quality and speed of digital tools are amazing, and i don't like plugins with analog interfaces at all. But i do like plugins that take the best of analog world and bring it ITB with much more options.

 

Im not saying that ppl "must use" or "cannot ignore" it.
Again, a good example here is that you get with some emulated analog EQ a better result then you would get with for example a FabFilter Pro Q when boosting the lows or highs. Thats just a fact that those emulations are sounding "better" or more "musical" and less harsh.

2 good Examples the Pultec EQ & the maag EQ. There are alot of Videos on Youtube about it but you can also compare it really easy by yourself.

And with better i mean it gives the sound some color. Its not that harsh.
Do you need that? I dont know and thats another question.
It all comes down to the vision you wanna achieve.

 

my eyes don't trust any corporate greed even thought if what I've paid looks good on my monitors thru the GUI....

But my ears will trash any plugs with lame attitude

music is dynamics and ghost note...

no advertisement believe in paranormal (except these guys : https://freakshowindustries.com/)

But my ears trust only wich is from the paranormal point of view of perception

Beware of ghost in the machines

 

Uh... what?

 

Late to the thread here, but for me the appeal is in getting the hardware sound, not in using hardware plugins. Hardware imparted something that's hard to describe. You know it once you notice it. But think about this, when sound is created via physical things, something gets imparted on it that feels very natural, very "flowy". Think about tape for a minute, the fucking audio is printed there via magnetic energy!! That's some cool shit. It's divine even. It's like sound in its purest recordable form.

Think about this too, music is something that literally touches people. It seems invisible, but the speakers push air that tickle the little hairs in our ears. On a molecular level it touches us. You'd think on a subconscious level our ear hairs can tell when the sound was passed through magnetic energy like tape, or electrical circuitry and transformers, or tubes or whatever it is.

People use words like "warm" and "mojo" and stuff like that, but they are just words that people use to try and describe something that isn't really describable. Sure, there are some common characteristics, but it's something you sorta feel subconsciously most of the time. And that's an appealing concept to me. The word i'd probably use to describe what hardware does is that it sorta "homogeonizes" the sound. It's like it turns it into a physical product. Sometimes it can feel more "3D", sometimes it'll seem thicker, or smoother, or characteristic in some way

 

Hmmm... I don't get it, unless you talked from a different perspective.
It's the other way around. The world is analog, including the computers down to the transistors.

Edited. It may sound weird "the world is analog", but the only reason we use the world analog is to differentiate it from digital equivalents (hardware or software) since first digital devices were invented. Watches and stuff. At the binary level the ones and zeros are actually kind of 0.98, 0.99, 0.05, 0.09... But that's good enough to take them as ones or zeroes and do all the digital stuff

 

Last edited: Jan 12, 2023

i think everybody to there own! Some people prefer digital cds! Me personally I prefer vinyl, but hey just see what the future brings!

 

Quantization is the difference between analog and digital.
The moment you capture a sound (or any data), it becomes digital. Thats only way human has figured out to analyze/process/manipulate/create/store data.
And it's not just sound, but audio, video, pictures, heat, weather anything.
Now why illusion?
For example, a video is actually picture/frames changing at very high speed, which gives an illusion of real-world motion.
Similarly, sound is binary electrical pulses beating your speaker cone at very high-speed giving an illusion of analog.

 

I was talking from "topic- analog emulation" point of view, not the real world.
Of course sunlight and sea waves are analog.

That is why they call it "emulation". Cause its not real, it can be as close as real.

Emulation = Illusion