Make all the assumptions you want but when Avid strategically purchased Digidesign, it was to create a proprietary monopoly within the film/av market. They then provided Universities and educational facilities with incentives to indoctrinate Protools as a standard.

Almost all film scores (most of which are done in residential private studios) are done using all manner of daws with Logic & Cubase being the most prevalent. Eventually, everything ends up in Protools to comply with changes in Timecode EDL edits because that's what Protools does really well. Most DAWS handle Timecode.

As far as standalone recording goes for making records, the amount of studios using Protools is diminishing and most run Logic (if they are Mac based) and give people the option.

Fuck Protools. I'm an ex-Protools trainer and I wasted tens of thousands on Digidesign & Avid both of which are terrible companies. I would not recommend Protools to anyone in good conscious.
I've been Using Logic (its predecessor on Atari) and Emagic forever and Studio One since it becomes available. I love Studio One its like the best of Tools, Logic, and Cubase with killer plugins outa the box. Logic is the same yet it has a sound. Studio One is more Neutral. That being said, Reaper is really powerful, cheap, and flexible.

When Bitwig implements Video (you can use plugins like Vidplay VST) it is an incredibly powerful composition, sound design, scoring, and mixing platform that deals with external instruments and can modulate anything to anything. It makes Protools look primitive.

So as someone that started using Digital since its inception in the early '80s, THe "Standard" is a made-up market penetration thing. There was a time when you had no option but TDM or Tape because "Native" didn't exist. Now the options are infinitely better, more powerful, and more compact. Oh and again, Fuck Protools.

 

I think that wouldn't change much. Because people at the big studios, are, in general, covered with lots of other things (career management, teams for recording, good instruments and mics, image and graph producers, etc). The bedroom producers need to aim the big studios (and all those other things) before aiming the billboard. that's sad, but it's life. If you make a record in a big studio by yourself, without all those other things, it will be almost the same thing of releasing it on your bedroom, because DAW's today are better than studios 30 years ago, and those records banged back then.

 

I can imagine Studio One capturing more marketshare over the next few years due to ratio of value for price it has. Pro Tools, Cubase, and Ableton are regarded as too expensive by a lot of younger newcomers, which will slowly phase out new customers. Studio One is in the same league as all the big DAWs as far as quality, and the developers also put a high priority on ease-of-use. I don't think Logic will grow much more considering it's not available on Windows, but if it was then that would probably be the main contender. Studio One is quite intuitive and user-friendly compared to other DAWs that are available on Windows like Cubase and Reaper. The one question mark will be whether Fender's purchase of Studio One will be a net positive or a net negative.

Here's my experience of DAWs. I used Logic for 8-9 years on Mac, then switched to Windows in 2019 (because didn't like the planned obsolescence), and ever since then i've been trying to find my perfect replacement DAW. I knew Logic back to front but it was a fairly buggy experience for me (mostly used v9). Over the past 3 years i spent good amount of time with: Reaper, Studio One, and Cubase. I've also dabbled a little with Ableton but not much.

Here's what i've discovered (in chronological order)...

1. REAPER:
--Pros: Best CPU performance and slickest coding. I can the load the most plugin instances with this one. You can load the software in like 1-2 seconds, click BAM it's open. The exe file is like 16mb. Also has unique features that other DAWS don't have. Active devs + Awesome company philosophy. Best community, very helpful and engaged. TONS of options. You can do anything your imagination allows. It's deeeeeeeep.
--Cons: TONS of options. So many that it's overwhelming. It feels clunky to use with all the options, it's hard to develop "visual muscle memory" because so much functionality is contained within lists within lists of options, which doesn't suit my brain style. I also don't like the way the interface looks or feels to use. Feels too "windowsy" or something. I know you can get custom themes but it still doesn't change the "windowsy" feel. Also researching themes is a whole rabbit hole in itself, as is researching scripts. These cons are unfortunately deal breakers for me personally because it gets in the way of my inspiration levels. It's too "heady". Which is a shame cos i really wanted to commit to it cos of the pros i mentioned.

So then i moved onto...

2. STUDIO ONE
--Pros: Great all-rounder. Great CPU performance (Reaper still #1 though). To me S1 is some kind of happy medium between Cubase and Ableton. It has half of the intuitive/streamlined feel of Ableton, and half the "digital console" power/quality of Cubase. Which is probably the place that feels right to me. Good amount of powerful/useful features without being so much that it drains your CPU, or your head. It's fluid and snappy. Nice interface, better than Reaper and Cubase anyway (for me). Doesn't feel windowsy. Most of the features are little things that incrementally add up. Maybe the biggest pro is that it doesn't have any "deal breaker" weaknesses.
--Cons: No major weaknesses. The main weakness is probably that it's kind of a jack of all trades, master of none. The v6 upgrade was underwhelming and makes me wonder whether the company has plateaued, have they run out of ideas/innovation? I wish the plugin manager was the same as Cubase's, in that you can set the ORDER that plugins are in the folders (not just alphabetical), and i wish i could create multiple themes/templates of your plugin folder layouts, like in Cubase. And i wish you could add the same plugin to multiple folders rather than just 1.

But then a gun mixing engineer aquaintance raved on about Cubase and listed all these compelling reasons why it's amazing and it motivated me to try it out....

3. CUBASE 12:
--Pros: Super powerful features. Probably the best DAW as far as feature quality that are built in, and how useful and smart they are. That's the main pro, and it's a HUGE one. Too many world-class features to list. This one's a small one, but the VST manager is the best i've found, it's so easy to oder your plugin folders and pull up the right plugins easily when the situation calls for it without having to think. MIDI Remote options and the macro stuff is also the best i've used. The "control room" feature is cool, you can put all your metering plugins on that and it sits outside of the song. (There's definitely more pros than this but i got sick of typing)
--Cons: The foundational code that they're building on top of is old and outdated, and so it has its limitations. E.g. it is super CPU resource hungry. This unfortunately became a deal breaker for me because my projects grind to a halt once i get to like 12-15 plugins (i7-8700 CPU), dropouts etc. It's maddening. No idea whether the problem is with Cubase or with the way my computer in particular interacts with Cubase, but it is what it is, and it sucks. The other 2 DAWS don't do it. It's like a Ferrari engine in a horse and cart, or something. For MY computer anyway. It's a shame cos i was reeeeally ready to commit to Cubase. It's also a bit buggy. The most buggy out of the other 2, not in a way that is a deal breaker, just in a way that makes you raise an eyebrow. I don't hate the interface, but i don't love it. It has a bit of Reaper about it as far as there being lists within lists of options, lots of windows. It's laid out in a way where you gotta switch between windows to access things you need. E.g. if you have your arrange window + mixer window visible at the same time, you can't see your inserts, sends & routing AT THE SAME TIME on a channel, you gotta switch between 3 separate mixer views. OR alternatively you can load the mixer windo as a full screen thing, then you can see it all laid out, but then you can't see your arrange window anymore so you gotta switch back. So there's a lot of clicking around to view the things you want. It's probably something you get used to after a while, but so far i'm finding it to be a bit clunky (better than Reaper though). And obviously if you're using 2 screens then it wouldn't be a problem.

In the end i landed on Studio One because CPU efficiency is better, it performs better, it's stable, it feels more intuitive and fluid to use, it has a better look and feel, it's snappier, and it doesn't have any "deal breaker" weaknesses. It does everything i need it do and doesn't have any major limitations. If people start catching on to this, there'll be no reason for newcomers to buy Cubase imo. But that will depend on Presonus marketing / Fender funding. There's simply not as many "cool influencers" using S1 as there are with something like Ableton

 

Last edited: Dec 28, 2022

Logic Pro + Analog Emulations + AI + Apple Hardware + Apple buying companies... That's the present standard.

 

Pro Tools is extramely buggy in new versions of McOS. In the studio I work for we're ditching it all for Reaper since it is now compatible with Wwise.

 

Well, you dissertation on subscription-only model don't touch upon whether you see it as leading to failure for AVID in the next 10 years which is the real topic of this thread.

Besides your opinion on AVID and Pro Tools what is your prediction? You made a good argument for Pro Tools getting dethrone but never closed it.

 

Market share has nothing to do with "industry standard." If that was the case, FL Studio will be. Neither is being the DAW with the most features. Reaper? It will take more than features and popularity to displaced Pro Tools.
Two members have pointed out two important hurdles any other developer needs to overcome. As @tzzsmk observed, big players have invested heavily into Avid's eco system. Moreover, as @clone noted, the educational pipeline is the white elephant in the room. How do you force them to forgo hundreds of thousand of dollars, and cross the bridge? That is why my marriage with Pro Tools lasted 31 years. A divorce was going to be very expensive. Needless to say, it was a marriage of convenience. Indeed, as expensive as Avid eco system is let us not think that getting a similar system, outside Avid, is going to be free. Staying with Avid, the majority of times, it is the cheapest option.
For example, as soon as I sold my studio I moved away from Pro Tools, more specifically from Avid's eco system, and now use Studio One as my main DAW. However, the switch has not been cheap. When I am done I will be at least $70k in the hole on hardware alone, in order to have a similar system. If I go crazy, it can reach six figures. WTF!! And on top of that, I have to learn a new DAW! Another white elephant in the room.
Those are the reasons why I personally don't see Pro Tools going away anytime soon.

 

Last edited: Dec 28, 2022

When I think of "bug-free" software, I'd try to keep in mind the fact that neither Protools or Logic are going to get any new features added in my next update based on an online poll or a few emails.

 

How much do they have invested in Avid hardware?

 

Easy. Only the ones using Pro Tools Utopia

 

*cough* Reaper *cough*

it's not just about keeping gear you have, but replacing gear at equal quality/functionality while retaining known "obsolete" workflows,
it's not a divorce but more like finding new love after unfortunate death accident, where you need to go on somehow,

I mean, if someone has for ex. AVID ArtistMix, once you start looking for a newer alternative (being equally silent and precise), you end up buying AVID S1, just recently SSL came up with UF8 and even nowadays, ProTools' EuCon is arguably most mature DAW control protocol, sadly limited exclusively to AVID products,
and same goes with all the way more expensive stuff like AVID S4, S6, S6 Live, modular MTRX etc... once you start thinking in ~ 100 000$ 's budgets, AVID actually isn't that more expensive for what it offers, although their support still remains quite terrible, they offer somewhat functional ecosystem, and that's precisely where "audio industry" is and what I previously pointed as shrinking market,

actually now when I think about it, DaVinci Resolve by Blackmagic is perhaps closest "DAW" contender to ProTools (and Media Composer) in AV industry, but imo its audio post-production capabilities are so bad so far

 

Bro I want some of that syrup you are taking. Musicians that don't know about recording using major studios? And you feel bad about guys still using Pro ToolsDon't feel "genuinely" bad for those engineer guys in those major recording artists that don't know much about recording. They are making on average $150k per year. The top ones, almost $800k. They are laughing their way to the bank with Pro Tools in their laptop.

 

Last edited: Dec 28, 2022

As long as there are people willing to pay AVID, there will be ProTools.

IMHO, AVID has to evolve or die. I won’t see it going out in 10 years, but they are doing an amazingly thorough job of alienating their own customer base who are actively looking and finding more reasonably priced alternatives.

 

FOOD FOR THOUGHT

If Pro Tool is so fucking bad how come that 1000's of you downloaded the Utopia, and years later the r2r versions? How come you were begging me for the BIOSTFU Tool to use it in order to crack Pro Tools?

 

Individuals can do it easier than business. Major studios have too much $$ invested in Avid eco system. I was not able to ditch Avid it when I had the studio. It was way too expensive to do so. Some of the major studios have shareholders, and it will be hard to justify the expenditure. I dont care how big a studio is, only a handful can write off $200k-$400k as a loss. Only to then having to spend another $200k to replace the Avid hardware.

 

Nothing as stable as a proper hdx rig

 

As I already wrote to another user a while ago, don't listen to most of the haters here. There are users who have expressed concrete problems, and in fact PT is not a perfect DAW and rightly needs improvement, but most are trolls who simply hate hearsay and have never opened PT in their life. It is obvious that PT is a vital point of reference for the professional music sector, and this will not change in the coming decades without some unprecedented revolution in technologies. And don't we kid ourselves: PT AudioUTOPiA is the most important warez release of the last 20 years. The most wanted and the most downloaded.
P. S. One thing is wrong though: R2R has not released PT. On the contrary, with that beta legit unlocker maneuver they have only created many new problems for us legit users.

 

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The haters are the ones that make this Forum such a fun place. As long as they dont take it personal, the hatred directed at Avid is good. Indeed, if you start a thread about any other DAW, the haters will come out of hiding and participate. Traffic is good for the site, and so is the sharing of different point of views, even those that sound crazy.
I suspect the same thing as you. The majority of all those self-proclaimed X-users of Pro Tools never spent the time to learn it properly, were using an outdated cracked copy, and without the Avid system integration which is the best one out there.
There is no perfect DAW. Indeed, some of the stuff I was able to do with pro Tools I can't do in Studio One and vice versa. I like facts, as I explained in my OP Reaper has been around for 16 years. If it was the wonder DAW they are making it to be, it would have taken over completely. 16 years is not 16 months! The same for the rest. I compare Pro Tools to Mike Tyson. A lot of pretenders, a lot of promising boxers but Tyson was knocking them out until...a company like Dangerous Music comes up with a DAW I dont see a big threat to Avid's dominance.

 

Ok. Now this: approximately how much money you made with Pro Tools if you dont mind my asking? If Digi and Avid were such terrible companies why did you "waste tens of thousands" in them? And more importantly, why were you training poor souls to become victims of the Evil Empire a.k.a. Avid? Why, vro? Why?

Edit: Usage of Evil Empire is prohibited by copyright laws. I already had @tzzsmk misappropriating my signature in a despicable form of plagiarism.
.

 

Last edited: Dec 28, 2022