So, for the most part, this fellow is brilliant at what he does - tell you like it is re the music recording field.

But THIS ONE I have to question. Without an A/B comparison (or with one?) can you really tell the difference between a supe'd up headphone amp with high end A/D-D/A converters wired into your gear? He responded to me saying that all I'd need to do is hook up the dedicated device he recommends to the output ports of my Audient ID14(mkii) and run my headphone out of the attached unit. Really?

Thoughts? (Personally, I think if you're balancing your listening experience between a crappy little desktop radio, good near-field monitors and good headphones - as suggested by the 'Your Mix Sucks' author - you'll have what you need, provided you are working with a great, well-mix/mastered reference track).

ps: I like this guy, don't get me wrong. I'm just not convinced his ears are hearing what he thinks he hears. With eyes, there are several, really rare people on the planet called 'tetrachromats' who can see more colours than the average human due to an extra rod or cone in their DNA/eye structure. But do some people have truly 'golden ears' that can out-hear everyone else? Are you one of them? Am I? Is there balm in Gilead?

 

Until you know the impedance of the headphones and the devices, you are making blanket statements. Resistance can be overcome by increasing amplification. Anything you put into a signal chain will sound "different". What kind of different, louder? Start there to see if you will be maybe wasting money on the purchase of an additional headphones amplifier. If you happen to think an amp is going to fix a Focusrite headphones output quality, you might want to rethink that.

Isn't this the first way you listen to a new interface?

 

Last edited: Nov 4, 2022

There are 4 objective qualitative characteristics in electronic audio components/processors.

Linearity in frequency response
Differences between channels
(Total) harmonic distortion
Noise

More components do not improve the stated characteristics.

Most headphones can be amplified with the Topping DX7.
If you need another amp to drive your headphones, your headphones suck and there are better and cheaper ones out there.

 

Sorry bro, did you mean to say, 'without' the Topping DX7 or 'with' (as you said)? From the rest of your statement, I'm thinking you meant without. Thanks!

 

I meant everything as said.

This could bring in some light: http://ethanwiner.com/audiophoolery.html

 

Haven't watched the video, but based on my experience with headphones and the title inquiry, my two cents:

I only mix with headphones, I'm used to it since I don't have the real state for monitors. I still do my checks on several sources, but the actual mixing happens on a pair of Sennheiser HD58X. Those are rated at 150 ohms, and I used to have them plugged at my Yamaha AG03, which has a great DAC and decent amp already. It was definitely okay, the interface could drive it really loud if I wanted, no distortion. However, a few years ago I had a chance of getting a Schiit Magni 2, and the difference was palpable. I remember listening to some synths and feeling like the sound was going to eat my brain. Bass is definitely the biggest winner when it comes to driving the headphones through an amp, it just sounds a lot fuller, almost like the sound sinks in your ears. I'm extremely skeptical when it comes to audio stuff, because lots of people (audiophiles in special) will try to point out facts using graphs instead of their own ears, but adding an amp to your headphones really makes a difference to the point I can A/B in a blind test and get it right easily. You'd have a harder time figuring out mp3 vs flac than interface vs amp.

But, you know, your experience with an amp still really depends on what headphones you're using. Some headphones just won't do much with an amp. I also have a pair of Sennheiser HD598, and they sound great at almost any source. There's zero point into plugging those in an amp, the shortcomings of the HD598 (lack of bass is one of them) can't really be fixed by driving it. If you're running higher impedance headphones (or planars?), surely an amp will do great. And you don't even need to spend a thousand dollars on that. The Magni 2 used to be sold brand new for $200, I believe, and it can drive anything. If someone tries to convince you otherwise, chances are they also believe they can hear a difference in the copper wires their cables are using.

 

Back in the day (and even today, actually), million-dollar studios mixed to cheap Yamaha NS-10's and lowly Auratone cubes. Why? If they could make the mix in those speakers sound good, it'd sound magnificent in a pair of Marten Coltrane Supreme 2 speakers driven by a Marantz 40n integrated stereo amp.

(Yes, this partially justifies why I mix on $100 headphones, but still).

 

You do not think that checking translation using mixcubes is meant to imply the work was actually done using them? Primarily or other portioning aside. Now that the Behringers are going, let's just not use all this good stuff?

I just saw this story posted here, involving Quincy Jones and a boom box. I have also seen that same exact story told verbatim about a producer and a Coldplay album. Word for word. Maybe John Legend and Stevie Wonder get together and write songs using Scaler.

 

Last edited: Nov 5, 2022

That's not true at all your list is lacking a ton of characteristics... e.g. group delay, phase distortion, phase delay, intermodulation distortion, damping factor, power compression (for speakers/ headphones)....

there are way better amps out nowadays by the same company for a fraction of the cost like the L30 II at 129$. moreover the dx7 has not that much power and i could see some problems there with inefficient 300/600 ohm headphones.

The noise figures with the newer amps are also significantly better, rated power is given for 1% THD for the dx7. Newer models claim 0,0006% THD+N at rated power (3500mw+) and 146dB SNR.....

 

Last edited: Nov 11, 2022

sorry the guy is spitting out false facts in his first sentence when talking about equal loudness contour.....

in short i would recommend using your interface as dac and getting an entry level headphone amp. the one he is recommending is imo the best bang for the buck you can get ATM. amps have no AD converters. the guy in your video is comparing apples with oranges by comparing the THD of an amp to the THD of the DACs in interfaces. very good DACs have about 125dB dynamic range, these new headphone amps have 145dB+. the converters in your interface are most likely fine. you would run your line outs to the amp and not the headphone out. the biggest problem with interface headphone outs ist that they lack power. that means as soon as you start to push the volume a bit, you will get unreasonable amounts of distortion which you can eliminate by using a dedicated amp.

 

Last edited: Nov 11, 2022

I've discovered Julian Kraus yt channel a few days ago and his take was basically that most interfaces have sufficient gain for heaadphones, at least if you use low impedance headphones

 

All this can be defined with the stated characteristics.
Group and phase delay result in distortion.
Damping factor and power compression result in bad frequency response and distortion.

I already described all those errors.
I do not think that it's necessary to make things more complicated as they are by defining everything out.

I never said something about what's the best amp for the best price out there.
I simply just answered the question in relation to the video.

 

Last edited: Nov 11, 2022

sorry but no thats just false you can even try it yourself

this is a sine measured after 24db LR high pass filter , red is minimum phase (180 degree phase shift at 260hz), green is linear phase (no phase shift)

distortion for green is higher lol

 

Let's pretend there are hidden things that are revealed when using magic headphone amps.
If listening for pleasure, that may be fine, but if the music was not produced using the same magic box, you may hear shitty things that were not intended to be heard.

Same is true with producing.
If you use magic headphone amp to produce, and adjust anything while using magic headphone amp, it may be lost to anyone who does NOT have that magic amp.
Or, it may even cause shit sounds on normal equipment.

Use high quality "standard" (industry standard, if possible) equipment.

 

There is of course a difference between phase delay created due to an audio component/processor and a simple phase shift.
Unfortunately it seems like you do not know what group or phase delay is.

And this is picture shows a noisefloor, not distortion.
And the noisefloor of the green signal is not really "higher", it's just fluctuation. That's one characteristic of a noisefloor...

But well then, do you want to explain us, how this phase or group ""delay"" gets audible, if not through distortion?


I really do not understand why people always need to try to make big statements to show off, just to end up in a dilemma.

 

I've got the Sennheiser HD820, bought an RME ADI-2 PRO FS (used), bought an M4 Motu interface.
Ask me which one I like a lot (although maybe a little thin) and which one I vomit to death, super harsh, veiled (that's an understatement), timbres are a little too much way off, bass is just terrible, etc...

The jokes on me...

 

ha well you've got me interested! I have dt770s using a motu m2, and I use oratory1990s EQ preset to flatten the behrdynamics. I'm not an expert at all but I've been toying with the idea of getting an amp and sonnheiser hd600 sometime in the future. I only am able to use headphones right now and I was hoping this would be a significant upgrade .... hence why you have me curious! I'm guessing you prefer the motu? dunno- that's how clueless I am.

 

Analytical listening and listening for pleasure are two different things. The Topping DAC/Amp mentioned in the OP is pretty good if you want to hear what was actually recorded. I prefer the ESS Tech DAC for analytical and AKM DAC for general listening. Same with headphones, analytical ones aren't as much fun as the ones tuned for musical enjoyment.

It's not impossible to make music with cheap equipment, but you have to know how to compensate, and that requires knowing your gear well and having reference tracks that you are very familiar with.

 

Last edited: Nov 13, 2022

Good post

However, some people might be wondering why mixing/mastering studios exist, if you can produce music on any cheap gear out there.

 

Last edited: Nov 13, 2022