Problem - when I record multiple tracks or a group into an audio track, the waveforms of the newly created track becomes small - why?

If I record individual stems one by one into audio tracks, the waveforms stay the same all good.

I select > Post FX > all good it records the same audio.

Now whenever I want to group say all my percs and record this group into an new audio (the group being set at volume 0db) > again I select > Post FX > problem now: the waveforms of the group audio created is tiny it looks shit and squashed (although it's still at 0db when I go in the clip view, so I'm a bit skeptical of Ableton's job here).

Like really tiny but I didn't apply any additional effect, compression or volume change in the process - so why is Ableton not summing up all the waveforms of the sub-stems of the group, into the newly created group audio?

It seems to sound the same but I don't like it, I wouldn't send this to a mixing guy because they'll think there's a problem vs. nice waveforms shape, no?

Thanks.

Before:



After:

 

I'm unfamiliar with Live, but isn't that dotted line a clip gain? If so, you're lowering your clips in volume significantly.
At any rate, how does the result sound, especially volume-wise? Is it quieter than it should be?

 

Wait. How come it's been posted at the start of the month, but appeard in sister site feed only now?

 

Because you replied, hence it showed up on sister site feed at the top now

 

To be fair, I only experience this when recording 'groups'. It seems that Live is unable to interpret the 'sum of audio levels' in groups correctly, most of the time.

Funnily in other instances, I happen to encounter this problem when having too many different plugins in a single audio stem, in a few cases it led to my audio recording track to go in red (which I never encountered before). In this case I simply put a Utility -10db in the source stem and +10db in the recording stem, and it all sounds the same, in green this time (no more red).

I guess it's just fine this way, one day I will need to learn about levels in DAWs, this is beyond my understanding. I happen to be confused by the height of some waveforms sometimes too, which are not always consistent in Live. I like to keep the waveforms not too high, it seems to me that it's always nicer when they are neither too big nor too small.

As long as I record single stems, I'm fine. And in the rare occasions it goes red in the recording audio bounce stem, I just use the Utility +/- trick.

It all sounds the same.

 

First, I went here because I saw it in the feed.

Second, your Live is weird. So the "tiny" waveform sounds the same as the sum of "big" waveforms? And a simple -10 then +10 gets rid of clipping? Are you absolutely sure there's no unintentional gain-staging happening? All faders are at 0, Utilities are right after each other in a signal chain with nothing in-between, clip gains are at 0, every plugin doesn't change the signal volume significantly?

 

What about the problem being caused by the Master? (not the Stereo Outs). You can have it be way off and have everything else look correct. It is usually in front of the stereo out pair in signal flow. (Sometimes people confuse this).

Also, if you are using sends from your channels to the group; make sure the send dB is nearing 0 to put the correct amount of signal onto the bus. This is another way you can end up with blank files when doing a bounce.

 

Last edited: Oct 25, 2022

Two words: gain-staging.
Learn it, use it.

Preferably, gain-staging ought to be the first thing one learns (both in the analog and digital domain). Then you can forget about it.

 

Last edited: Oct 25, 2022