any mixing techniques to make acoustic kick more full/punchy

Discussion in 'Working with Sound' started by petrrr, Oct 4, 2022.

  1. petrrr

    petrrr Kapellmeister

    Joined:
    May 15, 2022
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    43
    any mixing techniques to make acoustic kick more full/punchy

    thanks!

     
  2.  
  3. AKAIBOY

    AKAIBOY Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2022
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    14
    EQ or maybe saturation or Transient vst
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  4. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Messages:
    9,082
    Likes Received:
    6,990
    6 Steps to a Punchy Kick Drum
     
  5. Jeffriezal

    Jeffriezal Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    131
    - layer it with another kick sample but make sure it is tuned with each other
    - layer and SC Gate with a low sine wave to build more low end, the impression here to make it sound full.
    - parallel compression, a NY technic wud be a good start (1176)
    - like some posts suggest EQ and saturation, the understanding here is the mid-high freq (the body) that gives the punchy feel, the clicky. And cut out the room/boxy/rumble from the kick will give it more clarity.
    - fast and hard gate the tail from the close mic wud give the impression of smacked, the ambiance of it tail still preserved from the overhead and room mic. Also, you always can redesign back the tail with delay or reverb.
    - last but not least, make way for the kick. Don't let it fight so hard for space with other instruments, especially bass and guitar.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  6. PifPafPif

    PifPafPif Rock Star

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2022
    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    392
    The most effective/direct is to trigger a SINE.
    Because no one can boost something that doesn't exist.
    It is the famous "808 sound".

    Here is an example :


    There are plugins for that (faster).
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  7. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    3,828
    Likes Received:
    2,657
    Location:
    Sweden
    EQ, saturation, limiter, layer/trigger transient, trigger room sample, subkick/trigger sub frequency (as above), etc. It's also a matter of relationship/contrast to what else is in the mix (depth, overlapping/masking, etc). The percieved loudness comes from the room reverberation (psychoacoustic relationship), just like when used on a snare.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
    • List
  8. thejohndoe

    thejohndoe Ultrasonic

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    33
    What you are asking is vague, but usually the fullness of an acoustic kick comes from room and overhead mics. the punch comes from how all these signals work together. a closed mic acoustic kick on its own doesn't sound punchy, it just sounds like a very uninteresting pulse, but if you contrast it with the room and overheads and whatever spill tends to work to reinforce the signal, then it can sound like it has a fuller envelope

    Also got to consider the music the drum is going to be featured in. for instance, long room mic's aren't going to work too well in Thrash Metal for instance

    Without the context everything else is moot
     
  9. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    8,915
    Likes Received:
    6,112
    Location:
    Europe
    Post #3, 4, #5, :facepalm:Guys, what's wrong with you? Acoustic kick is written in the title and his first post.

    You don't need:
    - a fucking ancient PulTec EQ (welcome to the 21st century),
    - another kick sample,
    - a sidechain,
    - a gate,
    - NY compression,
    - trigger a sine wave or
    - an 808 sound

    Depending on the source this can help:
    - Retuning (pitching) the kick so it fits better to the song. Sometimes it's already too low or too high.
    - Something like RBass helps to give it more low end but be careful and make A-B tests, this thing is addictive.
    - Grab an analyzer and tilt it by +3dB. Make the area 40/50 -100Hz look even. Make 100 - 200Hz lower than below 100Hz (boomy). You don't need much of low mids (above 200Hz), emphasize the high kick sound (around 4kHz, you need to find it). You don't need anything ~ 10kHz and above.
    - You can saturate the whole kick a bit but not much because this often leads to unpleasant distortion in the low end. Better use a multiband saturator like FF Saturn or Wavesfactory Spectre and saturate the high kick sound mostly. You could use Saturn for EQing too, you just need to make several bands (below 40, 40/50 - 100, 100 - 200, 200 - something below the high kick sound, around the high kick sound, above ~ 10kHz).

    If the kick isn't too weak, this should get you already pretty far. If necessary use a compressor to either emphasize the attack (low pass sidechain and some attack time) or densify the whole sound (no sidechain, faster attack).
     
    • Agree x 4
    • Like x 3
    • Dislike x 2
    • Disagree x 2
    • Winner x 2
    • Interesting x 1
    • List
  10. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    8,915
    Likes Received:
    6,112
    Location:
    Europe
    Yeah, guys, you can disagree and dislike how ever you want (no worries, I was expecting this), but I'm doing this for a lot of years now. It's the most simple and straight forward approach and it works.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 2
    • List
  11. Sylenth.Will.Fall

    Sylenth.Will.Fall Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Messages:
    2,422
    Likes Received:
    1,640
    As you can see from the many differing views above, there are a multitude of ways of making an acoustic kick beefier. Most of which has already been said so I will just say, try them all and see which works best for you.

    Me personally? I will only work on what is needed to an acoustic kick once I know all the content I'm working with. It will certainly need an EQ, it might need to be augmented with a similar kick that I'll work on (EQ, Compression possibly, sidechain to the rest of the drum kit, etc)

    There is no right or wrong just as long as it sounds good, so experiment until you find what works best for you.. At least you have a lot to work with based on all the above..

    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2022
  12. PifPafPif

    PifPafPif Rock Star

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2022
    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    392
    It is YOUR way.
    And just before, you were just bitching about OUR ways.
    Ways used around the world for decades with "acoustic" kicks.

    What do you expected in return ?
    Love and admiration ?

    Not with that behaviour.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  13. clone

    clone Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2021
    Messages:
    5,957
    Likes Received:
    2,528
    since I almost always write music that has a beat, which is dominated by kick drums; I would still approach things the same way with any other kick drum. it is the anchor of my mix. I would set it up how I wanted it, and then I would not touch the damn thing again until the very end of my session. and then check it again with fresh ears.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  14. Stevie Dude

    Stevie Dude Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,178
    Likes Received:
    1,906
    Location:
    Near Nyquist
    transient designer. bam, done.
     
  15. boomoperators

    boomoperators Kapellmeister

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2021
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    65
    ReFuse Lowender to add sub-harmonics / harmonics below the fundamental (as opposed to Rbass )
    More info: https://www.refusesoftware.com/faq/11
     
  16. Hazen

    Hazen Rock Star

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2016
    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    393
    An underrated one: resonant highpass filter with the resonance (Q) pronouncing the base frequencies of the kick.
     
  17. WillTheWeirdo

    WillTheWeirdo Audiosexual

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    547
    Location:
    On the Beach
    For someone claiming to have been doing this for years you should know there are many different techniques to achieve audio results. As an experienced mod you of all people should know there is no right or wrong way to achieve creative results, and your post is borderline dismissive and disrespectful of others offering thoughts and ideas. I know half of the above ideas are tied and true industry methods that have helped many sell many tens of millions of songs. Just because "you" may or may not like the ideas others posted does not give you the right to be obtuse on this forum.

    Maybe act your age/experience level and accept that this is all opinions here, so let's show others the respect you want to receive.
     
  18. Hazen

    Hazen Rock Star

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2016
    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    393
    I think the point was that often you don't need some overly complex processing. Try to fix the basics first and chances are you solve the task. What's the point of NY compression or triggering a sine when your kick sounds out of tune or out of place with the rest of the song and you don't address that first?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  19. WillTheWeirdo

    WillTheWeirdo Audiosexual

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    547
    Location:
    On the Beach
    Best Answer
    Once the kick is in tune with the song.... these are different things that might allow you to achieve the results you are after. Without knowing what you have and what you are after

    PulTec EQ - A 50 year old proven tool. It can be boosted and reduced at the same frequency for surprising results as the bands do not cancel each other out. There are many plugins out there that mimic the Pultec style of EQ, IMHO the closest to the hardware (I've used 40-50 original or hardware clones) is the Tim P Duel Tech for Nebula.

    https://www.timpetherick.co.uk/downloads/dual-tech-tube-passive-eq-2/

    Kick sample replacement - A tried and true way to method over the past 15 years, look to the Slate Trigger for superior results. Many thousands of songs use sample replacement, in fact it's become the standard for many acoustic musical styles today.

    https://stevenslatedrums.com/trigger-2-platinum/


    Sidechaing, gateing, compression, EQ, transient adjustment - All tools that might help, only time and experimentation will tell if these are going to get your needs met. Youtube for many videos on these methods.

    NY compression / Parallel compression
    - Famous hardware technique that requires some experimentation to achieve quality results, modern plugins with wet/dry make it easy today.



    Trigger a sine wave - Became famous in the 80's to help beef up weak kicks, was difficult to properly achieve but with modern plugins, 500 units, and other modern tool it's easy. Make sure to experiment with different notes in the sine or square wav, keeping the kick in tune with your song. A little goes a long way, blend to taste.

    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/510--dbx-510-subharmonic-synthesizer

    https://www.waves.com/plugins/loair
    https://www.leapwingaudio.com/product/rootone/
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2022
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  20. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    8,915
    Likes Received:
    6,112
    Location:
    Europe
    Good observation, congrats.

    'don't need' is bitching? Grow a spine.

    And? Did I say these methods don't work? No, I didn't! Learn to read.

    :facepalm: This question is answered in exactly the post you quoted! Did I already say 'learn to read'?
     
  21. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    8,915
    Likes Received:
    6,112
    Location:
    Europe
    For pretty high kicks this'll work, no doubt.
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - mixing techniques acoustic Forum Date
Outdated Mixing Techniques BOOMERS Swear By Mixing and Mastering Feb 7, 2023
Bxxmer mixing techniques Mixing and Mastering Dec 17, 2022
Alan Wilder's sounddesign/mixing techniques (etc) for Recoil/DM how to make "that" sound Nov 30, 2017
Reamp techniques for mixing Mixing and Mastering Jul 7, 2017
best/useful plugins and techniques for mixing and mastering Mixing and Mastering Sep 7, 2015
Loading...