I make all kinds of music (no tracking, except eg a vocal or guitar) but it's more on a "linear" side - orchestral, hybrid orch, electronic, experimental ..sometimes even dance, funky, house stuff. I play piano so keyboards are my thing and sometimes I even record stuff without metronome. Also have quite some knowledge on music theory..

Studio One was like a dram come true (v2, v3, I think), the deal-breaker being terrible tempo management at that time. When that was fixed, I knew it was The One.. was just about to buy it, yet something didn't feel quite right. I was using Ableton, Cubase but also learning Reaper. All of the sudden it seemed S1 wanted to do Cubase and Ableton and then some at the same time..

I always felt at home with Ableton. Maybe it's not bc of the things it can do, but bc of the things it can't (or it doesn't). That helps me concentrate on making music instead of playing with toys. Still, it lacks a lot of important features..

Then Reaper came into play. I asked myself, what fits my way of working better, Ableton + Reaper or Studio One. The answer was - the first "combo". If there is a thing Ableton can't do, I know I'm covered.

No one can really answer your question. Just a thing to consider - a combination.. it works for me.

 

Yah that is definitely true. I have figured my way around Reaper enough that I'm now 100% comfortable with it. I'm not sure if I really have any reason to switch other than to try something new. It was definitely a big learning curve switching from Cubase to Reaper, but the same can be said when I switched from Fruity Loops to Reason ... or Reason to Cubase. It's all just about sitting down with any DAW for a while and getting familiar with how it does things. I think most do everything they need to.


And now some positive Reaper ranting, for the OP:
With Reaper though, there's absolutely no limitation to the free version other than the 6 second-ish nag screen. You are only supposed to try it for only up to 60 days, but you can technically keep using it. You pay a mere $60 to get rid of the nag screen, if you want (which I did), and you now have the same exact, fully unlocked Reaper for 2 versions of Reaper. There's no track limit, unlike some (most?) other DAWs. Performance is amazing. The community is fantastic at helping you out, not to mention all the tools/scripts/themes/etc people have built.

Then of course there is "Kenny", a guy that has dedicated an incredible amount of time making YouTube tutorials for hundreds of topics in Reaper. So if you have the time to figure it out, there is definitely help. And I wouldn't say it was a steeper learning curve than other DAWs, it's just a different curve.

IMO, Reaper is the best value DAW on the market, but that doesn't mean it's the right one for you, however. It might be good to try out some different DAWs for a short while and see what suits you. But you'll be hard pressed to find a 100% fully featured DAW for $60 - a DAW that will do every single thing you want. The question though is whether you can adapt your workflow to Reaper or find the tools/scripts/etc. to adapt Reaper more to your desired workflow.

That's a good question. I honestly don't remember what the upgrade was from whatever version I had to 7.5 that I felt the need to upgrade. It's possible it was nothing other than the allure of a larger number for me. It's been a bit too long. I think it's probably likely you could hang on to an older version for a while though.

 

Last edited: Sep 30, 2022

I started with cubase atari. then I left the computer. next up mac with Live 8. i kept Live until vers. 10 and when I started to be unsatisfied with it I tried Reaper. I didn't go back. Last week I tried Live again. No added value. I'll keep it until I need the space, at that point it's gone.
Sure you can do a lot with live, but IMHO it's a good beginner DAW. It's got a lot of useful and decent stuff and you can start making music.
As soon as you need or desire something a more: Reaper. When I started Reaper one member said you couldn't do a track quickly with it. Not the case. Reaper is as fast as or faster than Ableton.

 

I used to use only Sonar (Cakewalk) and began using FL Studio as a plugin.
Then I wanted to use Studio One the most because I'd bought a Presonus StudioLive mixer/interface.
I am using it some but now I am using Reaper more and I think Reaper is great, but they should "pre-customize" some things to attract new users. I have had it for a long time but never messed with it much because it seemed to much work to customize.
After getting started i realized it's not that much to learn, and it seems one can do nearly anything in customizing actions and menus,etc.
I tried a bunch of others and they all have different appeal but will be a learning process.

 

The bestest featureset for mixing recorded instruments is Reaper.
The bestest featureset for producing electronic music is Bitwig.

 

at first, THANK YOU for making a proper question, so this thread doesn't fall into annoying DAW WAR, and thanks everyone else contributing inspiring answers, it does really make a good read!

since you asked, I actually started with Cakewalk Sonar back in the day, it seemed as really solid complete DAW for Windows in its X1-X2-X3 era, it offered lots of good content bundled from other companies like Overloud, XLN Audio, Celemony... which I still like today,
it went downhill when Cakewalk announced Mac version which they didn't deliver and then sold Cakewalk completely, once it went Bandlab I knew it was dead,
it was Cakewalk Sonar's "fault" I got interested in Macs, so that time I already started looking at multiplatform DAW options, that time I was deciding between Reaper and Studio One (I think version 3 or so) and went Reaper because it was legally free to test extensively, without any functional or time limitations,
fun fact - there's Reaper theme called Echolot, barely year old, which look very much like Cakewalk Tungsten theme, and I love it!

now to your original question, I'm not quite sure how much of virtual vs. live instruments your music workflow is, but neither Reaper or Cubase will limit you in that,

for the price of Cubase Pro, you don't get just a DAW, but a very nice set of additional content you may use or not, by nature it's updated less frequently, you get to pay every major version upgrade, you can't comfortably try new major version before buying without messing with current system, for me dealbreaker was dongle licensing (now removed with v.12), ratio between new features and cost to get them, and rather big changes between versions - from v.5 to v.8 it felt like completely different piece of software for me; the way Cubase (and most other DAWs) being released in major versions, I don't like that for long-term work where sudden big changes in functionality isn't what I want for sure (paradox is that's what ProTools supposedly does, no meaningful updates for years),

Reaper is more of a DAW "toolset", which encourages you to populate with own carefully selected instruments and plugins (which I assume you have, been doing music for long time), and configure it to fit your needs (which actually is annoying for less techy people and artists who want just make music and not bother with technicalities all the time), it offers also a portable install (so you can run multiple different configs simultaneously if you wish so), it can be expanded with additional features (SWS, ReaPack) so much it definitely can become slow or unstable, so careful about that (also there are no "defaults" to roll back once you totally mess its settings), overall it's most stable multi-platform DAW you can get, which for me was the decisive point,

speaking of ARA, I think Reaper was one of first DAWs to support ARA2, also one of first to support it natively on ARM (Apple Silicon), which may not be important to you as Windows user, but shows the speed and flexibility of its codebase to adopt new technologies and third-party content, current state of Melodyne ARA2 support still feels kinda clunky to me, save/undo states may break, it's probably a mixed issue of both Melodyne and Reaper, it has improved a lot past months though,

sheet music supposedly isn't high priority, but devs do react very fast on whatever issues you find (long time ago when I found score view doesn't correctly show triplets evenly spaced, it took less than a day to fix, and less than a week to add into new Reaper update release - this kind of development and bugfix speed is something you simply won't find with any other DAW right now),

Dolby Atmos is already dead (at least for music, and everyone except few cinemas, in a similar way 3D is dead for TVs in living rooms), Reaper does offer its own ReaSurroundPan spatial plugin and does support up to 64 channels per track if you need so, it's just a hype nobody will think about few years from now,

underestimated advantage for Reaper is the amount of good quality non-misleading informative videos and tutorials online - if you make up your mind and type correct keywords, you get a video guide or forum thread on practically anything in Reaper,
and same goes with the extensions and actions - if you feel Reaper is missing something, you can be pretty sure you weren't looking closely, or just it took someone else to make that functionality possible via additional script(s),

Reaper does have its limits, for example track limit is somewhere around 4000 (for reference, in latest ProTools Ultimate/Flex it's 2048), and there are still things being ironed out all the time, for ex. only recently it was made possible that each plugin delay/buffer compensation is no longer "rounded" to full audio interface buffersize, but rounded within whole track plugin chain (which saves a lot latency in complex projects),

bundled content with Reaper is very minimalistic, plugins are ugly, but they are functional way more than much nicer plugins you can buy from other companies online, user interface of Reaper may look ugly too, but it's what makes it very resource efficient and stable (for example you can make mixer fader meters react and look very smooth by adjusting "Meter update frequency (Hz)" in Reaper preferences, it's just not high by default,

relevant concern can be lifespan of Reaper, it's being developed by 2 people I think (maybe 3 or 4 max.), but even if development is suddenly completely stopped, you remain with a fully functional product, with a license which doesn't rely on any online authentication, with huge community that can maintain and enhance all the additional content further - that's not something other big DAWs can offer sadly,

last but not least, Reaper supports all sorts of various codecs, not just audio but also video, so in a limited way it can become a handy video editor for more simpler things like music videos or youtube tutorials, it relies on VLC and ffmpeg to get even more codecs for encoding/decoding, which is something most other DAWs can't do,

judging by your former choices and current decisive point, despite I intentionally brought some flaws on the table, I think Reaper is the better choice than Cubase, because it should not make you reach its limits on functionality anytime soon - sure it will look ugly at first, and perhaps also very confusing, and sometimes not intuitive, once you really get into Actions, Custom Actions, Cycle Actions, Mouse Modifiers, Custom Toolbars, Custom Menu bars, and get used to some of the workflows, you realize it's your DAW, not just a DAW, and with its constant evolution, you'll get much more relevant product overall in long-term,

hope you find some of the info useful, don't hesitate to ask for more details if you need, it's impossible to cover everything in one post

 

Last edited: Sep 30, 2022

The best DAW to use in 2022 is the one you already know how to use the best. That will make for the fewest distractions, and the lowest time-consuming learning curve, in getting you from the start point to your 'end zone' with your project(s). The goal is to finish stuff up, not sit around with the 'if I only had...' syndrome.

If I had a nickel for every time I'd heard a musician start in with that 'if I only had...' stuff I'd be a millionaire by now. Fact is, 99.9% of the time that thing they wish they had makes very little difference to the end product they're working on. It's just excuses musicians give themselves to not complete work, or for work not turning out as good as they had hoped it would. Sorry, that may sound kind of cruel to some of you, and that's not my intention. I just believe it to be true based on experience.

Recording music has always been about workarounds and getting creative. Go read about the effects George Martin or Phil Spector created for records they produced and you'll know what I'm talking about. They didn't say they had to go to a new studio to work in, they just created what they needed by using their minds. Or even just read the OP's comment. He talks about having to print some effects tracks due to running out of live processing power, and to him this is a noteworthy problem! I've done this a million times, going back to when it wasn't an issue of processing power but rather, an issue of running out of hardware effects boxes and going to print instead. For this you need a new DAW that you may have to put some months into learning and getting used to??? REALLY??? If it's that important to you be my guest, but sorry, I think of that as distractions and excuses for not getting work done.

You know, most of us have more recording power sitting on our home computers right now than The Beatles had, the Stones had, even Tupac had in the 90's. No, we don't have their hundred thousand dollar microphones or fabulous old tape machines, but a new DAW isn't going to give us that anyway. Nor will the latest AI software mumbo jumbo make us as good as those artists were either. That's just reality for most of us. So instead of worrying about what DAW to jump to next, maybe just spend the time finishing up some music with what you already have. It's probably more than you'll ever really need anyway, and good enough to show what you're capable of doing. Isn't that really the point of all of this?

 

Long time music software hoarder. Learn and try every daws available and I enjoy most of them.
But at the end of the day to get the job fast and done I still use daw that I know the most. (which is cakewalk but cannot recommend that much if your concern is future-proofing because it's free now but it's ok choice on windows for performance and CPU utilization).

 

he bought reaper in the end. So sorry about your "genitals" fellas...

Horses for courses......................

 

Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2022

The software is actually bug cleaned, who would have thought that for a free DAW a killer service:

Spoiler: What's New?

What's New?

Just like the music that develops out of your creative process, Cakewalk by BandLab is part of ours.
Throughout the year you'll get regular fixes, customized content, and even brand new features.

Release Notes (2022.06 Update 1)
Bug Fixes in Update 1 (build 28.06.0.034)

• Audio Export presets not changing file type
• Extend Takes to Punch Out Time always reverts to loop End time when not loop comping
• Extend Takes to Punch Out Time / Comping Loop extend clip behavior should also work for MIDI clip recording
• Note Name Changes in Piano Roll view revert after clicking note
• Tracks are added in reverse order when moving to folder
• Process Effect plugin window requires minimum size
• Some users experiencing Activation Error 20
• Updated to latest Microsoft VC redistributables

Bug Fixes

• Hang when trying to sign in to BandLab
• Guard against crashes with toast notifications
• Crash if attempting to export to non-existing drive
• Prevent Cakewalk from attempting to export directly to a CD/DVD drive
• Export fails when path does not exist when format is not set to WAV
• Empty Export Folders not removed on app exit when exporting different file types or source categories
• Show prompt when export path is invalid
• Cakewalk External Controller API problem causing Cakewalk GUI to freeze
• External encoder presets not being picked up / stored properly
• Flushing during bounce occurs with plugins on buses that are not part of the signal chain
• Cakewalk should disable the options for Audio to MIDI conversion if Melodyne is not installed
• Muting Melodyne clip in take lanes causes clip to disappear
• Export Arranger sections not working properly when project has locked clips
• Resizing Arranger sections should be able to snap to other sections
• Committed arrangement off by 1 tick / losing first note
• Corrupt tempo map when CTRL+drag copy section with only one tempo present
• Tempo track wiped after drag copy section in user project
• Incorrect tempo at beginning of committed arrangement in user project
• WarnSilentBuses config setting should default to off
• Shelf tool does not work with multiple clips in the same lane
• Null pointer when trying to drag move range selection
• Unable to enter '+' character for markers when using non-US keyboard
• Move To Folder context menu command moves tracks in incorrect order
• Track Folder echo button status incorrect when active track is an audio track
• Process > Length crops MIDI stream when < 100% and ignores the duration of Hairpin and Articulation Map events

See previous release notes
Source: www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk/whats-new

 

Yep, despite Gibson's attempt to kill it, Bandlab getting Cakewalk has saved it. If course, whether there will ever be another huge version makeover remains to be seen but I don't WANT them to fck with it, it's fine.

 

This is both epic and the exact reason that I started this thread in the first place. Thank you for such a concise, thoughtful, and technical response. I've really enjoyed the majority of the information that has been provided by people like yourself and others. A couple of people missed the entire point of this thread. It seems that they have used this topic as an opportunity to regurgitate generalities, recite vacuous platitudes, or perpetrate the literary equivalent of walking into the middle of an intellectual conversation and wiping their genitals all over the front of the screen. No matter though, the cream has definitely risen to the top of this thread.

I just went and purchased a commercial license for Reaper, because I unfortunately don't qualify for a non-commercial one. To be frank, after learning about the company, I was going to purchase a commercial license even if I didn't end up using the DAW at all. I support what these guys stand for ideologically and feel that those motivations should be rewarded in some way, shape, or form. I didn't realize one of the creators was the guy who made Winamp. I love that program and still use it as my primary music player, on my current system, to this very day.

I totally agree with you on Reaper being a DAW "toolset", which I really like. I can't tell you how many times I've been in a DAW and thought, "How can I click a couple of things and make (fill in the action) happen in an efficient way?" I'd spend time trying to learn how to execute this action (assuming I was just under-educated in the ways of the program), just to discover there really was no way to do it. I would subsequently have to create some wonky work-around, wasting a lot of time in the process. One thing I've already discovered about Reaper, which I love, is that you can basically re-code the entire thing to your liking. That's amazing. I will definitely take the time to essentially create my own bespoke DAW in order to have the best workflow for my particular needs. The best part about it is that you only have to do it one time, then it's yours forever. ;)

I was also blown away by the third-party themes in Reaper. There are skins that look almost exactly like Pro Tools, Cubase, Logic, and Ableton; which is unreal. I'm already eyeballing that Imperial theme. That one looks really slick.

I think the most influential aspect of this decision has to be the Reaper community. I've never seen so many passionate and technically competent people (involving anything music-related) in one place. The fact that there is basically an answer to any question and that people will go out of their way to either explain, assist, or even custom-code a solution to a problem is worth the price of admission alone. I can't tell you how many verbal fisticuffs I've been forced into by the official "technical representatives" of some music software companies; who have no real interest in helping you solve the problem, but instead, want you off of their queue list or use the discussion as an opportunity to be condescending and rude.

In short, the ability to solve any issue within a single piece of software, combined with a developer who cares and a community that has your back is a no-brainer when it comes to selecting Reaper as a DAW. If anybody else is interested, this video was really eye-opening about Reaper's functionality and helped in my decision. I think it's subjective to say any DAW is definitively "The Best", but it's definitely very informative, none the less:

I still will use Ableton for live applications, but now I'm interested to learn more about Bitwig (which is my next journey into the unknown). I appreciate that people have voiced their logical opinions on why their DAW of choice works best for them. I haven't seen even one statement that seems invalid as it pertains to people explaining what they use and why. There definitely is no "one size fits all" in the DAW world, but it's great to receive insights from a multitude of different perspectives in order to make a decision.

The next thing I want to learn about is how Bitwig stacks up against Ableton Live. In particular, if Bitwig has video display capabilities, such as the Video Window in Ableton. I use that feature to sync up video for live performances and simply drag that window to another screen, which then projects onto larger screens throughout the stage. However, Ableton has gotten really finicky as it pertains to video codecs and being unable to interpret certain clips, no matter how much I install/uninstall/modify video codecs, third-party software, and any other items to make it work. Sometimes it's fine, other times it's a total disaster, which is not what you want in front of an entire venue of people. If you or anyone else has any insight, I'd love to hear it. If it's more appropriate, I may post this question as a separate thread, in a different area.

Thanks again for all the useful information. This has been an excellent learning experience.

 

Last edited: Oct 1, 2022

Before reading anyone else's response, I would say try them all and see whichever one grabs you. Like a good book, you shouldn't be able to leave it alone until you've mastered it.. That is the one to pick!

 

definitely both Ableton and Bitwig are better suited for midi/virtual (live) looping than Reaper,
there are some live performance addons for Reaper, such as Nabla Looper 2, and you can use Markers as Action triggers,
but overall I'd say for video live show, some VJ software like Resolume Arena is better suited, even if combined with some others,
years back when Bitwig was quite new, I gave it a try, it felt less bloated than Ableton and looked nicer imo, but I had no use for them, playing real instruments mostly

 

It all depends on your workflow really. For Livestream I prefer Studio One or ProTools because of the scene recall. Even though Cubase has mixer recall, the audio actually cuts out for a split second on recall so no good for Livestream but it's my go to for post production because of the excellent tempo matching features.

 

For Hip Hop and EDM production, I am biased towards Bitwig. Stock Bitwig Instruments and Effects are simple to use and can be easily used to make highly complex devices which is not possible in any other DAW. Very creative workflow for creative people.

One big missing feature in Bitwig is ARA integration.

 

Well, excellent choice. Combined with Live, you should have most needs covered. And as someone mentioned in this topic, Reaper might be the most value-for-money DAW. I enjoyed this topic, some really nice info here, thanks all!