Why sweeping statements with plugins should be disallowed

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by BaSsDuDe, Sep 26, 2022.

  1. BaSsDuDe

    BaSsDuDe Guest

    While I suppose it would put snake oil youtubers and many other online view revenue gatherers out of work, sweeping statements are misleading. It could come down to simply a bad choice of wording but I fail to see how any company who is supposed to be good at what they create, would wish to misrepresent what they create unless they hired a really bad marketing company.

    The application I put here is actually quite good. There are several really fine engineers in this forum and site who do know a lot about limiting.

    As a marketing example that should be corrected "This application teaches the basics of limiting" would better serve the application. I refer to the fine engineers on this site because they know the difference between knowing everything there is to know and only an overview of the core concepts.

    I like this application to be clear because it is one of the better A.I vst/aax's out there.
    This stated, I am noticing that the choice of wording this century is all over the place with many products. To the point of being almost misleading. Dan Worrall and others fortunately manage to help us out by dispelling clearly what is and is not viable or fact.
    Cheers


     
    BaSsDuDe, Sep 26, 2022
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  3. famouslut

    famouslut Audiosexual

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    I literally / coincidentally used smart snek oil limit for the first time today! Smartcomp is great, so I thought I'd try it out. It was pretty useful & interesting to balance (and see) dynamics / loudness irt. Wish I knew (it was easier to) limit to different "destinations" (ie not spotify). I also kinda wanted to squash sth I should've done via mix, but I didn't have the time - and it kinda (not rly) fixed it without too much hassle. I have been duped by filtersweeping statements?! ;_____;

    teal deer: it was interesting to see how dynamics and loudness interact, get an overview in a multiband way; lufs are a bit alien to me. Although spotify =(

    I also await mighty fine engineers!
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2022
    famouslut, Sep 27, 2022
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  4. BaSsDuDe

    BaSsDuDe Guest

    Like me with you, I have had some off-forum conversations with @No Avenger - He really has the important parts of audio engineering down and has a HUGE amount of audio knowledge. I have tagged him and I neither request or want him to reply as a result of tagging - he only does if he has something of value to add. There are several others who speak plainly without ego too.
    Smartcomp2 is really good I totally agree, as is SmartEQ3. They are definitely signs of A.I. getting better and better continually.
    As for filtersweeping statements, it seems to be the way of the world now... :facepalm:
     
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    BaSsDuDe, Sep 27, 2022
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  5. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    Xupito, Sep 27, 2022
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  6. BaSsDuDe

    BaSsDuDe Guest


    I missed them :facepalm:
    I will now attempt to post something worthy ....

    So do we call you God of Xupe or God of Ito? :rofl:
    As for the God Particle, I thought it was great for one thing - If you wanted your mix to sound big and fat and oversaturated like a big turd, it did that. I haven't written any music that suits that category yet but I am sure there is some out there. :speaker:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2022
    BaSsDuDe, Sep 27, 2022
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  7. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    Best Answer
    I already had several thoughts about this thread but since I prefer to keep it short, I refrained from replying.
    I'll try my second best. :winker:

    Rant #1 :winker:
    I don't understand this thread:
    - If the title is correct, the sub forum is wrong.
    - If we're talking about (AI) limiting and how to use it, the sub is right, but the title is wrong/misleading.
    - If we're talking about this specific plugin, the title and the sub are wrong.
    - Oh, and if it's a multi-purpose thread, the sub is wrong too.
    Clarification appreciated.

    Rant #2
    There's a (severe) mistake in the vid at ~ 1:46 'you can see that the loudness is decreasing and so are the dynamics'.
    LOL, what???
    1. That's not logical at all. Less limiting does not result in less dynamics, rather the opposite.
    2. At the bottom of the grid you can easily see that the dynamic values to left are higher not lower.
    3. In case both is not obvious enough, the values are even shown in clear numbers above the grid. In this example he reduced the LUFS from ~ -11 to ~ -16, while increasing the dynamics from 13 to 16dB.
    Two guys sleeping like a log. Thankfully, I added a channel blocker extension to my browser (highly recommended). [​IMG]

    Rant #3
    I'm very sceptic when it comes to so called 'AI' plugins.
    1. They may have used AI to analyze various genres at various times to find the most probable limiter settings. But I doubt that this AI could distinguish between limiting on the mixing and on the mastering stage.
    2. After the analysis of the signal, the plugin is applying static attack and release times and threshold according to the static code. I'm not sure if this stage could still be called 'AI'.
    3. Even if these settings were correct, this doesn't make a mix sound like this genre at this time, it just applies the probable settings for one plugin.
    Of course all this doesn't mean that the plugin sounds bad - which is the only important part.

    Rant #4
    I have no clue what these genre and time settings are even useful for. In case I don't know how the result should sound? Then I'd probably do something else.

    Rant #5 :winker:
    I don't use any 'AI' plugins because I don't want them to make a mighty tiger look like a starving kitten. :rofl:

    [/Rant]

    Spectral EQing, compressing, limiting (without any AI), OTOH, can be very useful as long as it allows to edit the spectral weighting.
     
    No Avenger, Sep 27, 2022
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  8. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    God of Pito is fine
     
    Xupito, Sep 27, 2022
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  9. BaSsDuDe

    BaSsDuDe Guest

    I believe you totally.
    The starving kitten was funny. :rofl:

    I expected nothing less than accuracy from you.
    • As for the A.I - it is what it is. For people who do not want to mix by hand and rely on something that will give them a half decent sound it is like Ozone. Neutron and a pile of others flooding the market.
    • I never believe any plugin can teach you about any topic unless it is a teaching module which it is not. That said, there are some decent plugins out there which teach you how to use the plugin itself which is kudos for their help files, but still, it is not an engineering tool teaching course.
    • It makes one wonder if the owner is selling the product in the video and the video is wrong........
    :)
     
    BaSsDuDe, Sep 27, 2022
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