I take the time to dial in a compressor. I have been using Softubes TubeTec bundle recently and its awesome on an output or master bus. I typically try to make everything hoover around -3db, and I can kinda hear -3db since I have been doing this for 12 years. You master with a single stereo track hopefully, not just throwing a limiter on a full project output and calling that mastering? If I master I will use bx_masterdesk or blackbox by PA

 

They're not entirely wrong tho, bit of a cherry picked exemple you chose... Every non-linear processor has the potential of creating harmonics (AKA distortion). A limiter is a dynamic processor that acts on a set of TIME basis parameters, that means it shapes the dynamic envelope of an audio signal by definition. The extent of its capacity of changing an original audio source (and creating distortion) varies accordingly to how it's put to use, ReaLimit works with a 10ms lookahead on High Quality mode, you're using it with a highly non-dynamic source (a tone generator), which is a good example of how one can obtain transparent limiting (rather useless in a real life case scenario but still valid). That doesn't mean a limiter can't change the original envelope of an audio source, it sure does and people often use compression/limiting for this exact reason.

 

Last edited: Sep 19, 2022

exactly. or in other words: you should know what you do to your audio. sure, you can hardclip everything to gain more level. but it will distort things.

 

Distort hell yeah, if that's your goal ;)

 

This might answer your question.

watch until the end ...

edit: These tracks are the real deal, sold millions, played millions of times, made by high flyers and industry standard, I agree the loudness is sheit. My point was he explains very well and funny too what clippers do and what compressors do. And what imagers and the lot can fix or fuck up.
I thought it funny, but appropriately.

.Seb

 

Last edited: Sep 24, 2022

OMG, that 1st mix makes my hairs stand right up, that's terrible...Edit: all those loud mixes sound terrible compared to the 'softer', tracks.

 

music doesn't have soul anymore in the way it sounds, synthesize everything and max out the loudness to where there's virtually no dynamics, just perceived dynamics but all the same loudness.... the future sucks. I listen to ambient drone music that has more dynamics than some pop songs thee days

 

Not really, it demonstrates that a limiter is not altering the waveform itself.

Even digital limiters and compressors can add distortion, I never doubted that (A good limiter with only some gain reduction does not produce any harmonics).

That setting doesn't matter at all with a generator, only when playing audio.

Lemme give you additional examples.

This is what a soft clipper with a threshold of -3 is doing to a sine wave with a peak of -1dB FS

That's already not a perfect sine any more. Now compare to my previos pic with a limiter.

In SPAN this setting is producing this result for a single sine wave (don't complain about 'no oversampling', doesn't matter for a sine @100Hz)


And this is the result for the limiter with 30dB gain reduction


As you can probably see, there are minor differences and that's because they do not 'overlap in a wide range' but are two completely different things.

 

"That setting doesn't matter at all with a generator, only when playing audio."

It does matter since it could be helpful to the discussion if you went on to elaborate how a lookahead (among other things in your example) can make limiting more transparent. Your response was rather... lacking, in a way that this response to my criticism could have made your first commentary a bit more insightful and complementary to what BlackHawk expressed, instead of sounding like an objection.

I'm aware I'm being a bit nit-picky in this regard (you didn't say anything wrong), but this thread is already packed with so much misinformation and half truths that I sensed this could be an important remark to be made.

 

Last edited: Sep 19, 2022

A good friend of mine told me ones: " Today, its better to put a limiter on your busses then just a last one on your masterbus. Like this, the last one, on the Master, works less than having all busses goes direct into the last master limiter. and makes it working harder. Like this limiting on each busses gives you more choice to final shape and dynamics. Giving the last master limiter the 'lil final touch. Same way for clipping."

 

In which way does this change anything about the working principle, please?
HQ or Low latency has 0 influence on the oscilloscope and for the SPAN pic the limiter was set to Zero Latency. Does this matter??? Also the analyzer's display is tilted by 3dB, neither of any relevance for the working principle, right?

But he was completely wrong. It was not about details.

 

There are a lot of audio processors that can shape a wave signal. I do not think this discussion is relevant.
I think it's more relevant do differ between harmonic enhancement and dynamic processing per definition and not what some processors include for side effects.

 

"In which way does this change anything about the working principle, please?"

I never said it did, it doesn't change anything in that regard, it adds up. I never said you're wrong and that's not my point.

"But he was completely wrong. It was not about details."

Not entirely (as I had previously explained, and it's not hard to guess where they're coming from). It's not about details, it's about didactic.

I hope I made my point clear and you may disagree with me (and that's cool). I'm going to quit rambling now for the sake of the thread.

 

Last edited: Sep 19, 2022

All this is so irrelevant.

Just make your mix sounds the way you like it. Then the final limiter or even clipper won't be so importante.

 

Last edited: Sep 20, 2022

yeah why even discuss things, just close the forum because sinewave told us to make music the way we like