i understand that the song should be approximately -6db before proceeding to mastering

my question is

do most mixing engineers aim for -6b almost across all sections, i.e Verse/Chorus/Bridge all reaching approximately -6db

or should the verse be -10db for example and chorus -6db......i.e to have some difference in levels (once again before mastering)

 

What (popular) songs (since 2005) do know, that have 4db difference between their sections?

 

-6dB across the board. Put a limiter on the master channel set to -6 and shave about -3.6 to -4.2 dB in the chorus (to add more density) and about -1.7 in the verses

 

i understood about -6db on master but can u explain what u said about shaving off for chorus and verse how do you do that i didn't understand thanks

 

No. The only thing you need to take care of is to avoid unwanted digital clipping in any plugin, channel and the main out. Whether the whole mix has a sample peak of -0.1 or -20 doesn't matter at all. If you export at 32bit FP the main out can even have +100dB.

That would not make any sense.

 

We are talking loudest peak here, after having a run-through of your entire song/mix. If it's clipping you turn down the level/master fader so that the master doesn't clip.

Yes. -6dB peak is a general rule of thumb to make sure there is some headroom before mastering begins, and that there is no digital hard-clipping. It's also a way to take as much advantage of the 144dB range of 24bit as possible, which is the standard of today. 6dB is roughly speaking 1 bit.
Many MEs (mastering engineers) ask for around 6dB of headroom and then he/she gain-stage accordingly in their chain, after having seen that the (roughly) -6dB peak criteria is met.

As a ME myself I ask for around 6dB of headroom on every mix I recieve. Some are happy to have a dB or two, as long as it's not clipped.
Edit: I also ask the engineer to remove any limiter that they might have on at the end. I prefer to have their own rough master reference (separate file) as a guide, but have the mix (mix file) in full dynamic glory so I can do my thing.

This thread is about the mix, BEFORE mastering. I sense a thread derail. :D

 

Last edited: Aug 28, 2022

Lolwut?

 

there is no question,
peak values are absolutely unimportant, as long as intersample peak is less than 0,
you shall aim for louder chorus and not so loud verses, it's called dynamics and has nothing to do with peak numbers,
and if you by any chance talk about RMS levels , the aim for something like -12dBFS chorus average and maybe -16dBFS verse average

 

Are you Manuel S.? I saw a similar answer to a similar question in the no-no-avenger forum

 

hahahaha

 

Don't clip. Period. .. and driving the chorus a little harder is as old as the road to Rome, it works!
so. Yey!

 

Not that I know of, but he seems to be a smart guy.

 

Could you look at your ID if there is an entry like M. Schlesinger or something like that?

 

i have ozone from izotope. Are you saying that i can put it at music at 0db and it will do its work? don't they recommend -6db or something before you put mastering plugin so that the plugin has room to work?

 

Why don’t you use LUFS?

 

-0.1

I've never done that. What for? I can easily adjust it myself.
I can show anyone how to pull down the level of a wave file - appropriate payment provided.

 

If you make a proper [gain staged] mix you will get a mix that is manageable by any mastering eng and never have to turn the master down. It's all in the mix. Just make a great sounding mix. If a chorus needs to be punchy, make it louder in the mix so it never exceeds the recommended LUFS-I of -13dB and adjust everything else accordingly. It's all much easier to achieve if you start kinda quietly even with songs that should supposedly be loud. Ears should be used more, not numbers.

 

LUFS -13 is not the de facto standard...

 

I agree, it's not. The standard is in the hands of platforms you put it on and it's from -8db all the way to -16 LUFS-I. -13dB LUFS-I is just a relatively sure shot for all the streaming services. I also like it because it suits my mixes and masters the most. When you account for the -1dB True Peak limiting, that leaves you with 12dB crest factor [peak to RMS level] which should be perfect for everything aside from classic and jazz/blues, without having to compress and limit the living shit out of your tracks.



Hope it helps somebody! This is my loudness reference chart I picked up I think on this forum in some previous thread about loudness/mastering. Or from Dan Worrall.

 

Last edited: Aug 11, 2022

Platforms. You said it.

if you believe it or not there are still people who needs a master for live performances or...you might have never heard of it...cds