Dry

I started playing music 17~ yrs ago and so while I played guitar,bass, and drums I never thought to record myself. My brother did in 4 track and a few failed attempts on old Samplitude but I never took a hint. Well, I am what you would call a ‘HIFI Audiophile’ and last year I thought to myself, “Holyshyt I have spent 10’s of 1000’s over the past years on gear but I don’t invest for my own music.”

That realization disturbed me to no end as Ive been spending money to listen and enjoy someone else’s music and still does. The money, energy, time, and music I have forgotten. Well, last year I had that epiphany and steam rolled right into buying gear to get recording. All the essentials and now recording gear dominates my room while an Alesis DM8 sits by the IMAC 27’, Netkar Keys MIDI, JBL 306P monitors/Behringer Truth 3201A, and Presonus USB 96 for an interface. I have Studio one 5 (presonus sphere professional pkg. w.e) with an ass load of plugins and tons of effects while also having my old skool guitar cab is a 60’s TOTL Barzilay cabinet(one of the finest cab makers period then) with a true Triaxle Jenson HC888 single 12’ fullrange driver. Its is paired with an early QSC 3.7a bridged mono amplifier that as a combo sounds incredible. Throw a Proco and a compressor pedal onto it sounds tits. So, I gave all this background so you will not have to give an answer with little information about me because I am new and being my first post it’s kinda necessary. Now to my issue and hopefully with all that out of the way you will be able to give me your best advice. Something like this, a lot of information is better than too little but funny enough the rest will be brief.

I have crash coursed all year on the grind trying to make songs and I am never happy with anything and not one project is finished. The loss and lack of anything to show for is infuriating. I am doing everything on my own and find tracking, recording, editing, and mixing by myself makes me my own worst critic. I literally have probably saved 150+(could be a lot more) song files and not one of them would I want to show. I really came into this on f’ing fire like I was gonna have 2 demos out by now or better and just kicking ass having a great experience. It is like I am missing some fundamental or mental check or is the fact I do not have someone driving and after my role of playing the track say its good enough for now lets move on. I can not for the life of me with all the stupid badass riffs make a song. I’ve tried old material and tried new material as maybe I needed to move on but that appears to not be the case as new material is never seen through either.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Advice? I am sure mixing might have a lot to do with it and tracking drums but I am going to download SD3 and take a huge burden off my back as I am not primarily a drummer. I want final drums authentic but at this point I just need some results no matter the compromise. If you got to the end I congratulate your patience and will appreciate your input. It doesn’t go unappreciated. Be easy guys Nd gals. Thanks.

Blake M

 

SD3 is a bit of a commitment if you just want easier drums; especially if you plan on just replacing them anyway. I think any of the main 3 I know of (sd,ad,ez) will all do what you want in varying degrees of everything, with quality directly proportionate almost with how much effort/resources they take up. I think AD is the smallest and easiest of them to deal with. If I want to make some beeping noises, I do not install Kontakt over them. This doesn't make anything simpler. SD3 will eat up some decent storage space if you get some big kits. Then you want them on an an external SSD. and voila, you have an entirely new rabbit hole. ;)

 

Last edited: Aug 1, 2022

it seems you play a variety of instruments and the end result is what bothers u.

i would advise you since u already have 150 song files

choose the best 5 and go record them professionally at a studio that knows how to get a good sound, that will be your last concern.

after you do that and have the product in your hand you can then decide if you wanna keep learning on your own and just hit the studios from there on.

 

There is you problem right there, by not finishing songs dont expect to improve any time soon.Start finishing your old projects and share them regardless what you think of them.You got to get passed that mindset .Share your tracks to get feedback so you will know where your weakness is.I am somehow in the same spot like you,havent finished the majority of my songs but i share them anyway so others better producers can help me out.Dont be afraid to collaborate with others because most of us cant do all the work ourselves.Focus on the structures of your songs then worrie about mixing and mastering because mixing and mastering is a whole new artform, i know i cant do it so i give it to others to do it.

 

I'm struggling with the same. "Finishing" a song in terms of melody, chords, arrangement etc is not a problem. But I'm just not into mixing/mastering. It's too technical for me and I don't think I hear what the people hear who do this on a regular basis. So all of that I've created sits and waits.......

I can handle my situation but you sound like you need help.
Why not look for collaboration here with somebody who is into the technical stuff or into the music production side of things that can help you finish some of your songs?

If I was convinced of the quality of my own work I might give that a go.

 

The only problem you have is expectations of what you can do based on what you've done in the past, which wasn't what you're doing now. Nothing worth doing is done quickly, it takes years. You're learning a whole new skillset, take your time and learn to enjoy the process. 99% of everything you do won't be good enough and that equates pretty much to all of our efforts, we're mining for diamonds. The Beatles were no different, we will never know how much music they created that was rejected. At some point they got good at it. I also think it's important not to be precious about what we do, I've worked with people like that and it never works out. If you aren't enjoying the process and have high expectations those things are your problem, not the actual work. The files you've already created aren't useless, they document your emerging style and at some point you'll go back to them looking for the germ of the original idea that will have more worth to you with more experience, or you'll hear something you can use in a newer track, or merge several together into something new. Also, don't be a perfectionist, especially in the early creative stages of a project. Maybe ask yourself why you want to make music.

Finally, there's a ridiculous amount of tuition on the internet and youtube now that help with just about every aspect of making music, presonally I think it's an essential part of making music now because the process is far more complex than it used to be.

 

that is the only thing I am proud of.

Clone - Thanks and actually I found an old EVO480? 500gb SSD but no connector so once I order that. But i am currently trying to download ezd and sd right now and im hitting road blocks with debit card process not completing, i supposedly capped FFS limit?(Dont see how), i get to RG OR Upload and its an upload option when i need to download. I dont know how retarded I am but I cant download the files.

Petrr - Yeah I understand totally and agree with you that going to the studio is a good idea but I guess it’s the mans man do shit on your own complex. I am getting better at asking for help hence here we are. Thanks for the input. That link I posted is a nod to ya.

Stoiximan - I totally wouldn’t mind collaborating with someone like minded. And you’re totally right, I was listening to Danny Carey talk about when songs are done and he said they are never done and its ends up coming down to being able to live with whats there. Theres a point where you’re okay with your “shittiness”. Not word for word but close. Thanks.

Ed - I do need help but I am trying to be a jack of all trades here ya know. In learning from what people have to offer can hopefully minimize that because nobody wants to depend on anyone really…well you know what I mean. I appreciate your thought and get your stuff off the shelf and get them mixed. When you do shoot me a link so I can hear some stuff you have. I’d appreciate it.

Crinkle - Thanks man thats resonated really well and I hear you out. Thats solid advice from everyone And I appreciate your time and consideration for sure.

Does anyone have any experience in DAWs being an aspect that makes or breaks work flow? I remember reason back in the day was great for metal or maybe it was cubase idk i forget. But anyways I am using studio 1 5 pro and its cool and whatever but idk the workflow feels like dogshit me. Or maybe all daws are like that and im just dogshit

 

Smeee

 

my point of view :
Regarding the fact that you have many songs and they don't convince you, the same thing happens to me, and also that I don't finish them. I think we always need the approval of a third party, in general, I live bothering my friends or acquaintances by sending my songs to see what they think, and when they tell me, if I like it or not, that's when my interest in "x" song, or if they tell me they don't like a song, I stop paying attention to it. So I would think that could be it. Also another thing that sometimes I think is that we get lazy and leave our projects there and one day we will finish it, lack of confidence, self-esteem, I think there is a mixture of things, and a lot has to do with the times we live in. Regarding the most realistic drums, for me, the most realistic thing I heard is Toontrack and BFD, They both have a very different sound, Toontrack you hear it without music and BFD seems to be more real, but then in the mix, it's like Toontrack it sticks more to the music, while BFD I found a very harsh, bright sound. But if you doubt that you would choose only one, it would be Toontrack, but, you could try Mixing both

 

@Blake McCreery , thanks for sharing your experience.

sounds like you lack direction, classic hobbyist locked up doing stuff with no aim, with no one to give directions and no real-life project.

and to make it worse, people who play acoustic instruments can not disguised their work like the "in the box" people can, so the lack of "pro sound" can be a bit demoralizing.

imho unless you team up with people who do this for a living or semi-professionals that can give you some context and real feedback you risk continuing the same rute

the other option is to actually go through all those old projects choose just the very best, delete the rest that most probably are crap. try to finish the ones that have at least something appealing and upload that music, either to youtube or some other service, but make it public.

there is an internal process in going public that will def change the way to see/hear your music, you will gain some healthy perspective on the whole thing.

You cant go wrong going public, lots of psychological knots will dissolve. stuff you wouldn't even think of

 

Last edited: Aug 3, 2022

Well my first thought would be why are you making music? Are you looking for success? Is it just for your own listening pleasure? Is other people liking it important? Any other reason?

I personally just enjoy the ride, taking the time to experiment and come up with something a tutorial could have explained in a few minutes, or maybe something so unconventional nobody cares about it. There's a nice personal touch i find when i find out things on my own, like finding the perfect flute sound in a "this is my flute, there are many like it but this one is mine" fashion. True, a lot of that music will never see the light of day and will forever remain in my hard drive, but man is it a lot of fun to make it, and knowing the process behind it gives it a bit of a soul, if that makes any sense. That said, i never intended success or for it to work on anybody but me, so your situation might be different.

So that's for my own music, but i've also participated on colaborations and that's a whole different thing. The best results i've gotten there is when the other part already had a very basic idea of what the structure of the song was going to be (which for me is a challenge, since i tend to overcomplicate it), then adding stuff to complete it kind of came naturally to results me and the other part really liked (would share those, but i'm not sure if they were ever released so i don't want to make public something that isn't entirely mine). So yeah, teaming up with people can be a great idea too.

That depends on your workflow. I don't really use a lot of daw-specific tools, so shifting from one daw to another doesn't really have a big impact aside from the initial "what the hell am i looking at?".

 

Well for me, my favorite DAW software to use for breakbeat stuff is Logic. Drum Machine Designer is a great tool to slice up old breaks into hits and then retrigger them with the midi data. It's like using Recycle, without having to keep that old junk installed still. (but no SCSI support, or it would be perfect). Every chopped hit/slice becomes its own Sampler instance, with them all located inside a single Summing Stack. It's extremely convenient and DAW integrated workflow improvement.

 

Last edited: Aug 2, 2022

apply all fx to the tracks aka bounce audio then mix it again. if you don't like the result repeat process

 

Last edited: Aug 2, 2022

Some of the world’s best music come from one take on poor equipment, not technically perfect, full of bemishes raw, but played with feeling

 

Some people are just not cut out for this. Maybe you are good as a guitar player in a cover band and that is fine.
Being an all in one producer, writer, musician, mix engineer takes a massive amount of talent and dedication.

 

Last edited: Aug 2, 2022

Try Ableton if you like creating loops then stitching them into tracks - it isn't simply a looping DAW, it pretty much does everything any other DAW does but it offers this looping workflow page that is very good for composing and developing ideas. Once you get your head around how it works it can be very freeing from the standard linear way of working (which is the other main page view in Ableton - they work together superbly). There's often a free version with a lot of hardware or a 90 day trial or a version on the sister site that I won't mention at all. To learn how to use it Ableton have a great video tutorial series, completely free and there's tons of stuff on youtube. There's also a dedicated controller, Push 2, which actually lets you compose without needing to look at the computer screen - I have it and it's a great device.

https://www.ableton.com/en/live/learn-live/

The original programmers of Ableton left the company and created a new one producing Bitwig, which has many of the original ideas of Ableton. I don't know which is better as the workflow is different and I haven't gotten my head around it yet.

https://www.bitwig.com

I'm not an Ableton fan-boy, I've used and will continue to use many of the other big DAWs out there and I also own Cubase, but I think trying them all is important until you find one you get along with. This part takes a great deal of time and patience. They all essentially do the same thing but it's such a complicated process that no two DAWs work the same way.

I'm primarily a guitar player and my own process with Ableton is to create a track, add a VST amp sim, set the song tempo to something I feel is right, play along with it and try to come up with a riff or something, anything. When I have a little idea I record it into the first loop box on the track I created then I create a second track, set it to record and this time use the play button on the top right at the end of the first row of loops and come up with a new idea that works with the first loop. I continue this process with as many new tracks I feel I need. Also, the length of each loop is unlimited and you can set them individually so you can essentially come up with sections of songs just on that first row of loops. When I'm satisfied with that row I move on to the next row and create a new section = which is now much easier because I already have each track set up - with VST effects and amps for guitars and VSTi instruments. Once I feel like I have enough sections - sometimes it's only one row, sometimes several - I simply drag the button on the top right of each row (the one with the play button) up to the window selection tab and into the composing window, positioning it where I want it. In that window you can stretch out your loops and really get into the song creating process, which because you've already created your sections is going to be very easy.

Lately I've been incorporating AI plugins either to start a track or add to what I have so far.

 

Having nothing to show after 150 sketches is quite normal. I'd say 300 sketches (musical ideas) and 100 mixes (finished songs) is the bare minimum to have decent music - this is the level from which you have music to show. Decent music something that sounds good but is not necessarily chart topper. And from here on it gets way more easier and faster (to the point you're going to ask yourself if you're not a fraud - but you're not, is just the result of hard work at the beginning)

I remember Avicii and Deadmau5, bot had over 500 productions at the time they got famous. I also remember Avicii in an interview saying he was so obsessed to make one sketch a day and was really dissapointed when he would skip one Sunday without a sketch.

Right now you're mid-trip. In the middle of nowhere, completely clueless. Just walk the path no matter what, and trust in you that when you're doubling your current work, it will get better

 

There is a huge learning curve between writing material and mixing it to sound good. That took me years, but I fought through it and am now to the point where I can get things sounding good. It's a struggle, for sure, but one that is well worth it.

Song writing on your own is pretty easy, but putting it down in a daw and making it come out as something is a WHOLE other ball game. I can only speak for myself, but what I did was read EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING. Any little studio trick or tip. The old Andy Sneap forum is a plethora of great advice for people struggling with tones and eq's. It's old, and pretty dead these days, but for a reason. Most of those guys went on to careers in studio and music. Just read back through those forums and try their tips, it really gets you in the ball park of manipulating sound.
Mostly, just study audio engineering and mixing in general. I've seen tons of studios that have all the impressive gear, but don't have at least one guy who knows how to mix, and all that impressive gear is just paper weights cause they don't know how to use it properly.

Learning to mix is key. Knowing how to balance tones and make them push through a mix without fighting each other in frequencies was a huge eye opener for me, personally. Once I started getting my head around that is when things really took off. Things sound fine on their own, but when you smash them together in a stereo field of just TWO SPEAKERS, things will fight to be heard and often times NULL themselves out in certain frequencies, leaving things either THIN or DEAD sounding.

Frustrated is kinda the right path to be on, I hate to say. But keep going through that frustration and just research, research, research. Eventually things will start to come through. Youtube is your friend. Ton's of videos on "how to do this" or "how to do that" when it comes to mixing. Take the time to sit down and watch and listen to the reasons they are doing things when it comes to a mix.

Good luck. As a person who is never happy with anything, if you keep striving for it you will eventually reach a place where other people will hear what you have done and go "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT! THIS SOUNDS AMAZING!" and you have to trust the outside listener cause you will always ONLY hear your flaws.

Good art is never finishes, it's only abandoned after so long. Sometimes you have to know when to abandon it and move onto something else and let it be what it is.

 

I definitely am not a cover band player. 15 16 years ago I reached a point after learning to play all the usual songs we do and never went back. I am only interested in playing my music and I mean thats 99% of the time.

MK - I dont do this for anyone but for me. Ive forgotten as much as ive written its sickening. Also I’d like my child to have her dads music for when i am gone someday. We play music together but she isnt into recording lol but yeah I will add that if its good enough to put out to seriously gig to I would. And I appreciate your advice.

Bboy - true

Readytowok - for sure thanks man

lx and WH - Thanks for the leveling with me instead of just assuming I should just hang up the gloves. I am asking for constructive criticism essentially..im just learning something in audio thats new to me..you guys said a lot that ill have to go check out so thanks. I will probably start having to give myself guidelines or time limits and or making any project I start mandatory to finish before starting another. Ill keep in touch and post my stuff in the thread here.

Eddie&crinkle - alright man ill commit and post something public here in this thread. And crinkle thats earily similar to how I do my guitar. Ive been throwing on a loop of whatever drums to play along to and choose the take that does the song its due.

another question. I know the band follows the drummer but i know of people creating backwards. I find making a riff on time with a click counterintuitive because the drums would influence 99% the riff so I have done my own drumming but then it feels like it’s counterintuitive vise versa. Can anyone explain how they usually create foundations for their stuff.

i am currently happy to say that despite never using a click until last year that i constantly play with a click especially when recording. Ill add effects and then ill make two slightly panned L&R mono tracks for guitar be it clean or distortion. One bass track with fx. But where the drums come first or last is always changing. Its like what came first the chicken or the egg analogy.

thanks gentlemen. Im glad I reached out.

 

The thing with using a click is that it enables you to make better use of effects and arps that need it, they can only really follow the tempo/click. I don't know how possible it is to start with a drum track using your built-in human metronome (which is better of course) and then have a DAW analyse that track and automate the tempo from it, changing beat to beat. I think Ableton has that feature but I haven't used it. In the old days we used to speed up and slow down within a song but I think that's really only a thing now if you're recording in a band scenario where you have most of the instruments in the room playing at the same time. I think a click is the bane of modern recording and there are artistes who disable the grid entirely so it is possible to work that way, I would google something like 'working without the grid'.