Hi,

I've been recording myself playing for like 7 years, and especially last 6 months 5-6h a week (I'm part of Ola Englund's weekly riff challenge). And during these hundreds of hours, I've been continously fighting with my guitar tones, at tone crafting stage + mixing stage. I recorded friends with high-end guitars, as well as myself with budget and upgraded guitars, but I always have the same problem : excessive fizz (dull sound if I try to remove it), honky/quacky single notes, muddy low end and low mids.

I've watched hours and hours of tutorials, tryed dozens of new methods and approaches (compression, multiband compression, hard EQing, soft EQing, with/without overdrive boost,...) and whatever I try, how many hours I spend on a project, how many mix reset I give up, I always face the same result. And today I lost my s**t in front of my PC, I cannot take it anymore.

My gear is simple and common : Scarlett 2i2, Samson Rubicon R8A as monitors, Beyerdynamic DT-880 as headphones. Recording in 44.1kHz 24 bits. Using same specs when trying custom IRs. Usually going with Archetype Gojira.

I stumbled upon a YouTube video (V8FmpqhdpaQ) of a guy using STL Will Putney on one of my favorite songs, in the tuning I'm currently using. He gets a clarity matching the best sounds I've got in my music library, and when I try the same plugin, I cannot get anything even listenable. Mud, mud, mud, fizz and fizz, nothing else. I'm in an unprecedented despair right now. This video just proves it's absolutely possible to achieve a really killer sound with amp sims.

The less worse EQing technique I've found (using Pro-Q 3) is a 24dB/oct low cut around 100-105Hz, 12-18dB/oct high cut around 7.5-8.5kHz (I've tried lower, but it's horribly dull then, -3dB bell at 300Hz, and high Q bell cuts of 3 to 6dB at 2.3kHz and usually between 3.5 and 4kHz.

I'm well aware of gain staging (-6dB recording, never clipping between VSTs), drums and bass' influence on perceived guitar tone, but whatever I try the bad aspects of my guitar tone is overwhelming, and when it plays solo I find it disgusting.

This forum is my last resort. Every tutorial I watched ended up having a bad sound to my ears (like, I've heard very small bands absolutely destroying even big youtubers...), except a few which advices didn't work for me.

I really need help because this is driving me insane now, as music making is my only distraction from a responsibility-heavy life. If someone can help me solve this problem, it will make my life literally so much better.

Thanks for reading, sorry for the monster of a post
Max

 

I bet you need to find the right IRs that work for your tastes.
Other than that, I have no tips for you as it looks you tried everything I can think of.
But did you go through https://spectredigital.com/product/guitar-tone-mastery/ yet?
He also uses a Scarlett 2i2.

 

many things to consider here:

-What type of pickups are you using vs what is being used in the videos
-Did you make sure the guitar itself is working as it should? (i.e. no faulty wiring)
-That EQ setting means nothing without context, as in what the source actually sounds like, but i think you might be cutting too much in some places.
-Are you using the right IR?

It would help if you could share the tone you consider the best you have, for reference.

 

You mentioned all your gear... except the guitar.

 

I was using a Scarlett 18i20 and I hated the sound of it's convertors. It had a high end "tin" brittle sound to it. I ended up getting rid of it because of its software; but I really liked almost nothing about it, but the price for the amount of connectivity. It may be red in color, but a nice Red it is not.

Anyway, since you are using Fabfilter; I would see if adding a Pro-DS instance would help with your higher end "fizz". (yes, on a guitar)
You could put an instance of Simplon in front of it, to put in a tiny little high cut filter.

 

can you turn up the sound of your guitar? maybe by listening we realize better or we can come up with an idea.
At the moment something like DSEQ3 or Soothe comes to mind. But maybe I'm saying anything. Maybe by listening I can orient myself better

 

It is a very long post. One thing I personally see in it, that causes me pause. Why are you recording at 16bit/48khz? I think this is going to let your Focusrite do more than you want to your input signal. I think you would be possibly better off recording at full 24/48, and then dithering down/converting to 16bit files if that's what you really want as your target output. Otherwise your recording might be suffering from some form of Focusrite based Truncation, right from the start. I wouldn't do it, if I was trying to find your issue.

I would also suggest, once it is waveform/audio; to not expect one EQ or plugin to accomplish all the tasks your file may present you with. You should setup a nice chain which allows you to do each stage of your processing in smaller increments before hitting the next processor in the chain. Basic stuff, but with Fabfilter Saturn to saturate, proq3 for reductive eq, pro-c2 for compression, proq3 again for enhancing/sweeter eq, then your Pro-DS instance, and then start looking at Pro-MB for some multiband compression. And keep going back to each stage/processor and re-adjusting over and over until you get your desired sound. But that is from your file, not your guitar. It sucks, but sometimes things get sent back as "recorded wrong".

I don't think you should need 900$ worth of plugins to make a guitar sound right. The Focusrite would be the easiest thing to switch out. Especially since you have tried with multiple physical instruments , it's the only poor component (that should matter). Run a synth to it if you have one.

 

Last edited: Jun 22, 2022

Would be really enlightening if you post some your efforts and tell us what did to the plugins and which guitar with what pickups you used.

At first I would really lower all input gains and lower that damned distortion. And don't do hi- and/or low passing.

To clone: It's never the converters. Nowadays. It's always the user. The Scarlett converters have no "brittle" to it, unless you misuse them.

 

you complain about your tone but don't even post anything we can listen to..as we say a picture is worth a thousand words...so start by posting something we can listen to, preferably without any EQing etc., and then also detail the whole chain...guitar, p.u, cables etc etc...after that maybe you'll be able to get some valuable feedback

 

Please, share a dry track of your guitar recorded with this gear , and tell us which guitar it is, if it's been modified, tell the specs, specially which pickups are mounted and which combination you use.
Also tell us, or share an example of the sound that you want to achieve.

 

How does one misuse an interface? So which Scarlett are you using now? This off topic, but you are not correct. If you mean to the electronic component level, I do mean the entire result of the interface. I read that big long post with no audio file, so I could at least get to learn something out of it too. My suggestion of changing the interface out and evaluating things from a clean signal to start with would be a lot faster than hours of videos and adjustments that the op says he has already done. if it doesn't change it, plug the other one in again. Rule the entire thing out and apply all the processes to a known source wave file. Easy steps before diving in to a pile of software.

 

Last edited: Jun 22, 2022

Wow so many answers thx a lot guys ! I'll try to be as concise as possible. Not trying to promote myself, but all my recent mixes are here if you wanna listen, and I post each time the best tone/mix I could : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUdfqxhHg1PZKqr4tlbvhig . I'll list my bridge pickups at the end of this comment.

@DontKnowJack I watched the promotion video from Glenn's channel featuring extracts of the course (and rewatched it 5mn before posting here), and I end up not liking the final result at all. I have tons of IRs but even public-acclaimed ones sound thin or dull when I try them

@Ryck I already gave Soothe a try. It worked a bit on fizz, but then it sounds dull/muffled

@clone I wrote that I'm recording in 44.1kHz 24 bits, not 48/16 The signal chain you're giving sounds like a lot of processing, or ? I was used to process a lot but eventually kept it simpler as it gave better results. I might give it a go, but right now I'm not even satisfied by what my sims (Archetype Gojira, Nameless, and Will Putney in particular) output, even trying about all stock IR possibilities as well as custom IRs. And the first rule I learned 8 years ago when I started recording is sh*t in, sh*t out !

@mk_96 @Trurl I didnt mention the guitar because... I own 6 of them for metal (weird I know, I'm writing on a whole octave spectrum from E to to drop F). I got various pickups, from stock Harley Benton for 7 and 8 strings to Dimarzio D-Activator, but I encounter the same problem weach each one, that's why I didn't mention it. Same goes with friends I recorded with high end guitars.

@BlackHawk I'm keeping the gain between 9 and 12 o'clock maximum, and play with the input gain pot in my sims to fine tune to the point the sustain is just enough. Without hi/low pass, how do you take care of not making bass and cymbals suffer ? Bells ?

@Olymoon This evening I'll get some dry files here, right now I can't unfortunately. Sounds I'd like to achieve :

(OK this one is hard ).

So, the kind that allows me to get something massive if I can do a better job at mixing/mastering. I know this kind of sound is controversial, but that's what I love

Guitars :
- Squier Aff Tele with BareKnuckle Brute Force
- Jackson JS-22 with Dimarzio D-Activator
- Harley Benton ST-kit (yes) with Seymour Duncan SH-11
- Jackson JS22-7 with stock pickups (love their specific tone)
- Harley Benton R457 Fanfret and 458 Fanfret with stock pickups (these one can be a problem, but I've heard good thing posted with these)

Thanks again for reading and answering guys, I appreciate it a lot !

 

The best tutorial videos I've seen regarding setting a guitar tone strip everything out, effects, eq., etc., and start with only volume and tone on a selected amp. There are so many variables at play even at this stage that I wouldn't get something relatively ok-sounding and move on to the next stage because you can still make huge changes just by altering your guitar volume and tone knobs, input and output gain. But there's no doubt that this is the stage that will reveal the errors that you're hearing. Also it's important to cut frequencies, if the sound is lacking treble instead of boosting the treble try cutting the bass and mids. If you can't get the tone you're hearing in your head at this stage then it's likely that the guitar itself can't deliver that sound. You can try altering pickup height. Changing the pickups might be another option, plenty of pickup reviews demonstrate the huge change they can make to a guitar.

Another thing is your mix. A guitar amp sim preset shouldn't be created in isolation but within the whole track because what can sound crap by itself can sound wonderful in a mix and vice-versa. For example have a listen to Brian May's isolated guitar from Bohemian Rhapsody.

I think your problem is par for the course, it's a fundamental constant battle that nobody ultimately wins. Sometimes we get lucky and an incredible sound springs out of nowhere and the next day with the exact same settings it sounds like crap - I've always suspected that this has more to do with with our own biology changing from day to day than the actual sound.

If all of this is knowledge you already possess then maybe you just have great ears and need to enter the boutique side of the market.

 

I listened to three videos of you. I honestly don't realize what's wrong. Unless it's that "billous" "high" sound but I guess it's part of the style of music you make.
Maybe someone who makes the same style of music could give you an accurate opinion. Sounds good to me.
But as Oly said, the best would be the guitar on Dry. But if you have 6 guitars, from my point of view, ruled out the guitar.
Sometimes one does not like the sound that "x thing" has, it happens to me with my console, I do not like the white noise that it adds, so I only use it as a monitor for the sound instead of recording with it. That may happen to you, that you may not like the sound of how your motherboard processes the sound. But hey, there are people here who are more expert on the subject and you will surely know with precision. But nevertheless I think it would be better if you turn up a clean sound. "dry"

 

You are burning your own guitars and using a Scarlett. I almost fell out of my chair your video is so loud and clear.

Pro-DS can be like magic to calm down high frequency transients. Many musicians ignore using a De-Esser because they think it is for Vocals only. You wouldn't need to use the whole FF chain I mentioned; although you may if you want some nice sounds relatively easy and cookie-cutter'd. I was giving you an example of where you might want to put your Pro-DS instance though, and some of what you can push into it. It's basically what Soothe is being recommended for too, but you happen to have FF already. Try not to destructively print this to your files if you are going to send them on to someone else to finish up.

I remember listening to a few of your projects before. This one is really easy to me. Your problem is 20 guitars, and 1 Scarlett.

 

Last edited: Jun 22, 2022

You do not need your guitar tone to sound good.
0:57 and focus on guitars.

See, sounds horrible. But it works.
You just need to make it work.
You need taste.

 

Last edited: Jun 22, 2022

it's like wanting to paint like vermeer and maybe you paint like rembrandt. you can have exactly the same paint, brushes, canvas, hours in a day, food, everything, but it's unlikely that you're going to paint like someone else. also those bands you posted, most of them aren't just one guy doing everything, they have a bunch of dudes, each of which is insisting that their contribution is represented, and you have a producer who is solely dedicated to creating a product, there's one or two engineers fixing stuff, assistants, food and other sorts of delivery, etc etc. main important thing is the story you are trying to tell with your life. just focus on an engaging story to tell and then you may or may not attract the 12 disciples to get the perfect sound, but when you focus on the story, the sound will become the job of a producer and engineer who aren't you. (edit: unless you're aphex twin)

edit2: also, a lot of those examples contain a bass as well, and really the guitar ends up being some kind of shaped noise. often it is up to the power and the vision of the producer. Each band member is giving their all, so how do they have an extra "all" to agonize over the entire mix? They get the extra quality due to a more or less hidden hand who also has their 100% to contribute.

example of shaped noise:

 

Last edited: Jun 22, 2022

It sounds horrible? I must be deaf

 

Amazing

 

All starts with IR choice
It takes hours to choose the IR that suit YOUR needs

On my side : OwnHammer (R)evolution
ORNG+TRAD
MRBW M75
MRBW+MRCB

Starting from that, i can use almost any amp and get a good sound.

But without the right IR, everything will just suck because EQing is going to be a nightmare.