A Warning On the Future of Music: with Author Ted Gioia | Podcast #1

Discussion in 'Education' started by kokorico, Jun 10, 2022.

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  1. kokorico

    kokorico Platinum Record

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    I think that's about it.
    Last week I went to a nightclub on Wednesday to get drunk at the gintonic. It's a place where all kinds of people meet. The atmosphere was soft. No DJs! A playlist that I didn't even hear. One moment I hear the intro "Relax" from franky goes to hollywood and all the young people started to howl like wolves while throwing themselves on the dance floor. The gays all took off their shirts and it was crazy!
    I was laughing my ass off. And I danced with my sunglasses on.
    Then there is a French song from the 80's that has been going strong for decades. Same crazy! Hahahah!
    I don't remember how I got home.
    That's it!
     
  2. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    Same here. I kind of like only his rants or harsh criticisms, like this one. He's very good at that. But then you see a video called "why there aren't guitar gods anymore?" and I'm like WTF. Precisely because I love great guitar solos as a veteran metal-head I know it's basic common sense. Not trending, very difficult, ...
    What, who calls me... what did I do this time? it wasn't me!
    Oh, that.... ok, late to the party and stuff :rofl:
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2022
  3. Mynock

    Mynock Audiosexual

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    Your comment is very interesting. But this hatred of the market and money is ridiculous. I believe in conciliatory solutions, like when music found the movie market and when it was later incorporated by the games market. The problem is that these markets simply want to erase the figure of the composer. The dream of these big shots is for everything to become stock music and they invest heavily in the development of musical AI to take the last penny (as soon as this is possible to implement). I had the biggest headache with a client I wrote game music for. He wanted to use stock music, so I did the Music Supervision and choice of songs. It got to a point where the client himself said: —these Stock libraries are too generic, how can we solve this? My answer —Pay me... I compose original music for your product, simply! he resisted but in the end he gave in. I think the way is to show that there is merit in customizing music creation/production, whatever they are for. A product made by a minimally talented human being (original music/music production) is better than most of the generic crap loop libraries we see out there.

    postscript: however what I said, does not solve the problem of music duration. Customers end up asking for 30-second loops of original music 'cos they don't want to pay a minute or more. Again, we fall into the problem of short forms, which seem to predominate nowadays. I wonder if humanity will ever regain the ability to, for example, watch works like The Ring of the Nibelung (16 to 18 hours of music). With the current pattern of concentration and interest in music, this is practically impossible.

    As much as I am a fan of virtual pornography (and with my wife), I could hardly watch a cycle of 16 - 18 hours of musical pornography :rofl:



    “And I say I just got a buck
    Get into it, yuh
    Pop out with a truck
    Get into it, yuh
    If you go to church
    Get into it, yuh
    If she ain't got a butt
    Fuck it, get into it, yuh”

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2022
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  4. Sani

    Sani Member

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    We pay for everything. For anything ... except software and digital content.

    If you want to buy a loaf of bread, you have to pay.
    If you want to buy a bottle of water, you have to pay.
    .
    .
    .
    No one ever gives a single grain of wheat to anyone for free.

    But unfortunately, digital software and content are easily available to everyone, even without paying a cent. When something is made available to everyone for free, it loses its value.

    Now, is one wheat more expensive or Cubase?

    We need to make music and software an expensive industry so that not everyone can access it. In this case, the quality of music increases.

    Public access = Number increase & Quality loss
     
  5. demberto

    demberto Rock Star

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    Money and music work very differently. Money calculates everything, it uses predictions to control everything including music. It favours a formula. Anything that becomes incompatible with how money works is a lose already. "Good" music is subjective, money doesn't understand "good" or "bad" or "generic", it only understands quantity.

    Money should ideally go where its "owners" take it, but bless their ignorance, money goes wherever its taken to by algorithms and predictions. The "consumers" of music are getting more and more dumb and ignorant. If this continues they won't even mind listening to AI generated music, because guess what, its not about the "experience" its just about "consumption".

    Whatever is easier to "consume" becomes the "trend" and what goes out of trend is already a loser. This is where my point about education is important, if the "consumers" don't learn about music and develop a liking, how the fuck will they be able to distinguish between what's "good" and what's "easier to consume"?
     
  6. demberto

    demberto Rock Star

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    Audacity and Cubase are both freely available not considering how to get them. Does Cubase lose its value to Audacity?

    It was, and this isn't the solution. Making something expensive doesn't mean it will get more talent automatically. One of the biggest software, Linux is entirely free and open source. Its definitely has more talented and hardworking people working for it than Windows for no guaranteed incomes most probably.

    Its a "too many cooks spoil the broths" case except here, companies don't want to make their software more expensive, they want more users instead. So they will try their best to attract more people to make music.
     
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  7. Sani

    Sani Member

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    I mentioned Cubase as a symbol, not an example.
    It was the solution.
    No one ever becomes a mature person by having free things around them. Talents are usually people who have either had a tough past or worked hard in the past.
    Being available for free or cheap does not mean you can use it properly. The cheaper and more affordable something is, experience has shown that it leads to abuse, like drug abuse.
    It is true that many people have contributed to the development of Linux, but the reason for its widespread use is because it is free.
    Microsoft has been much more successful in designing operating systems, despite having far fewer employees.
    People working in software companies are not skilled musicians. Because if they were, they would design better software. If they were musicians, they would not code or sell anything. If they were musicians, they would choose their clients from other musicians, not ordinary people.
     
  8. BlackHawk

    BlackHawk Producer

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    ... and the never-ending flood of stupid critics...

    Critics were always 80% idiots and 19.5% useless blahblahers. In this case here the inevitable Rick Beato, never tired or remembering everyone that he is still "on the scene", sure puts that critic-dude upfront. Beato always is desperate to come up with anything that puts HIM into the spotlight. Beato is very knowledgeable, but always self-promoting. And from yesterdays...

    So... you know what a man once said: The trend is going away from guitar-bands. Or so...
     
  9. clone

    clone Audiosexual

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    You could use a time machine to 1970 and hear the exact same "music business" comments. They would just be in the context of that time. "I remember before using a XYZ machine, and now all these lame followers are doing it too!" type of shit. The same observations about "Show Bizz", and almost 0 of it has changed. 90's conversations about "the real musicians" not getting to use analog gear anymore, with it all being snapped up by those with common sense and money. A year later, the change of conversation to "who wants analog when Digital synths are the new rage?" etc.

    It may be difficult and even unwise to trust anyone who has their own agenda. But if they do not, chances are nothing will get done either.
     
  10. triggerflipper

    triggerflipper Audiosexual

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    Uggghhhhh, this place feels more and more like a retirement home. In the very least, it smells like one.

    I mean, come the eff on, in 2022 we're still having the same "good music still exists, you just gotta look for it" conversation??
    I'd wager that there are WAY more talented musicians today than in the past, even in the mainstream.

    You REALLY think women and minorities (who, together, make up the majority eh) had easy access to musical education back in the oldies but goldies days? In the 60s there was one Joni Mitchell, today you have masterpieces from female genius musicians released on an almost weekly basis.

    And one guy thinks making software less available and accessible will increase the "quality of music" :rofl::rofl::rofl:

    I fuckin LOVE how presumptuous some people are. Yeah, music, arguably the greatest thing in existence, needs saving, and YOU know how to do it, because NOBODY ELSE EVER thought about the same retarded shit a billion times before, YOU are the key to saving GOD :guru:
     
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  11. BaSsDuDe

    BaSsDuDe Audiosexual

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    The Internet brought many things to musicians. The facility to speed up learning at up to 500% of the rate. Musicians with higher levels of skills much earlier, inaccessible music, scores, information and more at the click of a button, instead of waiting months for snail mail to arrive or having to go interstate or overseas to develop specialized skills.

    Ok that's a simplified summary of some of the good things. .... Many people still call it "The Music Industry".
    Last century there were major record labels and independents. Add agents, managers, plentiful venues everywhere, music that was almost 24/7 and almost on every corner and less regulations. In the days of LP's, a Major label would send one of their A&R guys out to gigs where bands reputably had large followings to check them out. If they had a huge following and wrote their own tunes as well and were very good, the A&R guy would go back to their boss and make a recommendation. They would then check them out one or more times and make an offer if it was consistent. This usually comprised of a 3% of Sales royalties, up to 15% of publishing and advance which meant they'd receive nothing until that advance was paid back. The reason they liked original material "THEN" - was because they could collect all of the money and not pay money to other labels under copyright which was enforced stringently "THEN".

    The above continued into the CD age of the later 80s and into the 1990s until MP3's and technology started and the Internet started distributing piracy at an unprecedented rate than ever before. Napster was shut down and many others.

    Sometime around 2000 and since, the monitoring lost its way. Now you have distributors like Spotify taking 99,99% of all money and giving next to nothing back to the people who paid for it.

    So there is NO INDUSTRY for anyone other than those who were ruthless enough to extort musicians and almost make it accepted that it is legal. ASCAP and every other collection agency has done nothing to change it - there is too much here to go into..... It's a fucking mess.
    Pre-2000 Daniel Ek, iTunes, Pandora and every other streaming site who takes more than 25% would be spending every waking hour in a courtroom until they took it down, just like Napster. This will not happen in the short-term, if ever. This is the way of the world now and the musicians looking for their 15 minutes of fame and labels who had it taken from right under their noses are to blame.

    Ted Gioia has written some fine music books. He saw it from a different perspective and he's not wrong from his perspective.

    It is very difficult having seen all of that happen up close and being involved in different ways in it to remain objective. That is as objective as I can be. I am sad for future generations who will never know what it is like to make a living out of only live performances. Nor will they ever understand what copyright was originally designed to protect - them, and how strong that enforcement used to be.

    Now to my own opinion - I do not think there has been a semblance of a proper music industry for well over 15 years, possibly since the turn of the century.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2022
  12. hackerz4life

    hackerz4life Audiosexual

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    The process of listening to music has changed. It used to be, still us for many, an escape, a method, admiring the LP/tape/cd booklets, listening to whole albums. Today music serves as a background while twerking on tik tok.
     
  13. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    First things first: Be critical - question everything and think for yourself.

    Oh Spotify the bad guys oh oh they cheat us... of course you're being ripped off, it's a company and they want to make a profit.
    Then don't become a customer there - or is someone forcing you to?

    As a musician, it must be clear to you that there are millions of other musicians and everyone is vying for the attention of paying customers.
    When the MP3 and the internet really took off, the music industry's figures went into the basement, they used all their money and knowledge to get more market share again. Radio stations are exclusively financed by advertising.
    Many music blogs are lackeys of the music industry, they are only financed by advertising.

    It's the love of money, greed, ignorance and stupidity. Start your own label, press your own CDs, make the booklet yourself etc.
    Why do you need the music industry that only exploits you? Say no.
     
  14. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    Pretty sweeping and very simplified. Zack ~ listening to music in 2 sentences Bravo...!
    Please here on the planet 7.8 billion people, with very different listening habits.
     
  15. Ad Heesive

    Ad Heesive Audiosexual

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    Why? :dunno:
     
  16. pratyahara

    pratyahara Rock Star

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    The victims of the system are the forgotten art of composing, and the forgotten art of performing.
    It has always been in this direction - from chosen, delivered to chosen.
    The profit isn't choosy and fools outnumber everybody else.
     
  17. demberto

    demberto Rock Star

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    You contradict yourself. Are drugs cheap? Might be for you, but there are far more things cheaper than drugs with much more harmful effects. Drugs are illegal because the cartels want to keep it that way. Weed is still illegal in many places because of the cigarette lobby.

    Much more than whom? From their track record, nope. Windows Phone turned out to be a failure. The current state of Windows is a mess. They steal their UI. Windows has one of the worst track records with respect to security. They bought DOS, it wasn't their creation. Oh and they have a ton of employees, probably more than permanent Linux contributors.

    Musicians won't understand about software design like devs do and devs won't understand about music like musicians do. That's exactly why both of them come together and create stuff like Kontakt libraries and plugins. Probably you are talking about the UI which needs better designers, who are completely unrelated from musicians or devs.
     
  18. BuntyMcCunty

    BuntyMcCunty Rock Star

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    I've no idea where you live, but here in the UK it's much easier and cheaper to support a weed habit than it is a cigarette habit. Taxman's putting it right up the cigarette smoker's ass.
     
  19. demberto

    demberto Rock Star

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    That explains why so many of my friends are shifting over to UK:rofl:

    Good for you guys.
     
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