Could certainly be something Windows related although this laptop had not been allowed to download windows updates for a few months before this issue started and as part of trying to sort it I did a fresh clean install of Windows 10 pro but I have not allowed it to update either.

 

Ahead of you on this
I have tried it with Kontakt 5 v5.7.3 portable and kontakt 6 v6.6.1 both in Cubase Pro 11 and in Pro 12 and they both have the issue.

 

Hi Clone

I have just tried your suggestion and it makes no difference.

Worth a try though.

Speaking of the UR22c, I have also tried reinstalling the Yamaha Midi driver and rolling back to the last two earlier versions but again no joy.

 

I didn't expect it to help, but a defective unit could drive you nuts. I like to rule things out methodically, rather than jump all over the place. The interface is always the easiest to switch and most common sense place to start if you have two available to you.

 

Last edited: Apr 27, 2022

Hey Secretworld

Yes, If I load separate kontakt instances per patch (I tested up to 15 instances) they play perfectly so that could be one way to go but its a messy way. Plus I really want to get to the bottom of why, out of the blue, this issue has happened or I wont be able to trust this laptop.

The other thing to mention is the midi file on each track also has Dynamics, Expression and Vibrato automation data (Which all work perfectly on the multiple instances above) and if I remove all of that automation the single Kontakt with 10 librarys also plays perfectly.

It is when I have the automation data that the issue happens.

It is also not specific to Spitfire string Librarys, it is happening no matter what string librarys I use.

Just to test it. I loaded up East West play V6 and Symphonic Orchestra and added 9 Midi tracks + the instrument track
and that has the same issue with notes dropping.

I may be wrong but it seems something to do with Cubase and I guess Windows not liking the automation data
but what made it suddenly happen I do not know.

 

I'm real sorry to hear you're still having issues.

I'm sure you already have, but desperate times call for desperate suggestions...

Are you sure your computer's power scheme hasn't reset itself & is still set to high performance (with no usb selective suspend or link state power management enabled etc)?

Also, have you tried adjusting the cubase studio settings, the assorted asio guard options (including disabling it and/or cubase's multi processing altogether) or changing the midi timing options (e.g. use windows system timestamp in the MIDI port setup etc) or indeed even lowering the asio buffer to, say, 512 or 256?

Are you absolutely certain that your laptop is receiving sufficient power?

Any chance of a basic latencymon readout of your machine for say 10 minutes at idle, just to strike-out any DPC or spiking issues generally?

 

Last edited: Apr 27, 2022

haha it was a good call to make and one that I had not thought of so thanks for that, one more thing to tick off the list/

 

I am watching the video and will give it all some thought. Can't ask for much more help from a Logic/Mac user when in your boat!

One other seemingly stupid thing I would try, I would completely rule out any of the data within the Midi Tracks being some unseen cause. So I would create one very simple midi, and put copies of it onto all your channels. I would also load the same patch/sample to every instance of Kontakt. Maybe just use transpose so you can differentiate them from one another when playing for your test.

The next thing I would do, would be to do the exact same test in another other Windows DAW software (with decent enough midi). Then we rule out Cubase completely. It's your Kontakt settings, your usage, or the actual computer. again. This stuff is just like audio signal chain chasing. If it is indeed a Cubase bug, you are lucky to have a purchased copy, so you can bitch to support. But I doubt it highly, if it is Kontakt related and in 2 versions. They would have fixed this for certain by now.

 

Last edited: Apr 27, 2022

I think MIDI data is not reaching your instances of Kontakt. for whatever reason. You have one frame in the video where you noted this concern:




If this is true, you are not experiencing audio dropouts in the true form. The midi instructions are not reaching Kontakt, in Logic this would be easiest to look at in the Midi Event List and the Midi Environment. What do they call these utilities in Cubase nowadays? You want to see the flow of midi data from the channels to the instrument.

I would test this with another Virtual Instrument, also. Send the exact same data to Falcon or Battery instances in a similar configuration. If it works, it's Kontakt. If not, it's Cubase.

The very first thing I would do though, is move all your Midi Track data back either 4 or 8 bars and check again. This could be a bug where playback of that many instances being initiated right away will never play back correctly. Logic did that for a number of versions but they fixed it. We'd just move things back prior to bounce or whatever. Normally it doesn't matter unless you have that much stuff starting right at the beginning of your recording/track. IF I really had to, I would bounce down some instances for the first few bars as audio. That will be less load on cpu starting your project playback.

 

Last edited: Apr 27, 2022

Just checked, I checked yesterday but worth checking again. and its all High performance settings.
As you say, No USB suspend or Link state, Turn off hard disk never, Sleep after Never, Intel Graphics Balanced, Max processor state 100% (tried reducing it as well), system cooling policy Active, Turn Display Off Never, When sharing media Prevent Idling To Sleep, Critical Battery notifacation is on

Yeah, tried every combination.
32 Bit float
Cubase Multi Processing off (also turns ASIO Guard Off)
Multiprocessing on + ASIO Guard at Low, Normal, High
Audio Priority Normal and Boost
Activate Steinberg Audio Power ON and OFF

The UR22c buffer size is nomally at 1024 samples but have also tried 1536 and 2048 but no difference.

Cubase is using currenly using WinRT MIDI for its ports and I have tried it on "Use device WinRT MIDI + Use system Timestamp for WinRT Midi Imports but No joy
Also tried Use system Timestamp for Windows MIDI Inputs, again no joy.

As far as I can ascertain it is.
It is always plugged in to the PSU else audio does stutter no matter which DAW I use but it has done so from new.

Yes, that was one of the first things I did, I left Latency Mon 7.20 running for just over an hour and it reported no issues.

Just for belt and braces, I have also left Latency Mon running for 30 minutes while the Cubase test project was playing (with the notes dropping) and it also reported no issues.

Last night I ran MS Memory test and left it running over night and it reported no issues.

Its driving me nuts.

 

Hi Clone and thanks for your reply.

Yes I agree.

Exactly, its MIDI dropout and not audio dropout.

Battery works fine but Kontakt and East West Symphonic have the issue.
Its the MIDI automation data that causes it.

If I do that, so that each midi plays after the prevous has finished then there is no issue.

In the context of a large composition bouncing indivgual tracks is not ideal which is why laptop is as powerful as it is and CPU does not seem to be taxed at all.

Plus this laptop will be used by paying clients so I can not really be having them messing around bouncing when they really should not need to or having soft synths that play up.

The thing is everything was fine until a week or so ago, some thing has changed and thats what is causing the issue.

 

Interestingly, I tried exporting the MIDI tracks as stems and although Cubase exported all ten, only Track one had sound.

 

As @clone noted, this really does looks like some form of midi buffer overload from within kontakt or some midi overload/munging/dataloss between cubase and kontakt.

Have you tried loading a fresh instance of kontakt as a rack VST - as opposed to an instrument channel - then mapping this new kontakt instance with seperate outputs, same as the original. I suggest this 'cos i recall reading something about kontakt (as an instrument channel) and multi's being tempramental in cubase, though (sorry) i can't recall where just now.

Your laptop sucks cocks in hell - have you thought about calling a priest?

 

Last edited: Apr 28, 2022

Ok, the last time you were working on your system that I read; was the ssd issues still. It is helpful to know that is working prior to the system or config changes.

I have formatted a pc many a time trying to get Cubase working perfectly. Because if you do not have a good base installation, you are just asking for later trouble. so I get it, you can't charge people money to watch you screw with your system.

 

That has been my assertion all along after factoring out the SSD's (which I wrongly thought were the issue) however I am unable to find anything about a windows MIDI buffer so far.

Yes, it happens in Track and Rack instruments and it has been mentioned on other threads that there was an issue with Multi's on Tracks.

hahah I needed that laugh (cocks in hell) and my partner has put our local Vicker on speed dial.

 

Ah yeah, when this issue first started I thought it was an SSD issue hence the thread about that but I did a fresh windows, DAW and basic soft synth install on a new SSD and for a day or so it was fine but then the issue came back. It cant be down to plugins like waves and so on as I have not reinstalled any plugs

This has kinda re-enforced my thinking that it is a Cubase issue (maybe mixed in with some kind of wierd windows issue) as the issue does not just happen with kontakt but any third party Multi-timbral instrument that supports Dynamics, Expression and so on.

I did try a 10 track instance of Halion Sonic but none of the stock patches support Dynamics etc.

 

I would load up all the instances, and delete all the midi data from them except one. Then playback, over and over, adding one copy of the midi at a time. Tinker with it and find the minimum number of instances *with*, and without data on that track before it does this error again. track count to fail in both scenarios. The problem looks daunting when it is 10 channels of Kontakt. it could be anything at that point. you have to narrow this down or most people will get lost in the details.

playback occurs sequentially from channel one on. you are losing data at channel 2 in your example.

 

Try replacing Kontakt with a midi data logger like piz's, and see what, if anything, is going into where kontakt would be.

But I suspect the basic flaw is that you're trying to cram 10 midi cable's worth of midi through 1 virtual midi connection, and cubase is limiting how much data can go into a vst3 eventlist.

You could - and probably should - use a midi data smoother to decimate the automation data down to 10s of automation point per second, rather than trying to cram hundreds/thousands of CCs through an emulation of a 32Kbps connection.

EDIT:

Oh, and also, kontakt provides 4 virtual midi inputs labelled a, b, c, d, you should probably try to spread the data across not just channels, but the 4 ports, too. That would help reduce any chance of midi blockage.

 

he said it is not just Kontakt. Why does Cubase have nothing like the Logic Environment and event editor or something? A 500$ daw should not need this level of effort for 2 channels of midi; but. certainly not another 3rd party plugin for us to figure it out.

 

WTF I only clicked Post reply once so dont know why there are multiple posts but sorry about that.

 

Here are a few thoughts:

• Look at the Track Inspector VU meters when the MIDI track is playing back. Are they staying active during the dropouts? If so, I’d suspect something in the audio conversion - possibly even just cables.
  
  
• Open the List Editor and see if there are any unwanted CCs there.

Source: https://forums.steinberg.net/t/midi-dropouts/150575

Re: MIDI Dropping Out
I found the problem - I was running too low a buffer and the virtual instrument could not keep up, that's all.

Spoiler: Historically, the fix for dropped MIDI notes was to increase the value of the MIDI "Prepare Using" Buffer.

MIDI notes dropout

Historically, the fix for dropped MIDI notes was to increase the value of the MIDI "Prepare Using" Buffer. Long ago, the default was 500ms; when SONAR X1 was released the default was reduced to 250ms which caused dropped notes in some projects just as you describe.

In the 2019.11 release the following bug was reported fixed:

- Setting the MIDI "prepare using" to 256 ms or lower causes missed or stuck notes.

Along with that bug fix, the default was reduced to 20ms with the following notes:

- The Default MIDI Prepare Buffer size has been reduced to 20 msec. Limitations preventing the MIDI buffer from being set lower have been removed. There should be no need to change the buffer size from the new default value anymore, since the engine automatically raises the internal size when necessary.

- On first launch, Cakewalk will reset the MIDI buffer size to the new default value of 20 msec (Preferences > MIDI - Playback and Recording > Prepare Using n Millisecond Buffers).

Notwithstanding the note about the engine automatically raising the internal size when necessary, there may still be situations where it's necessary to set the starting point higher, such as when using FX that use look-ahead buffers that trigger a lot of Plugin Delay Compensation. Some synths may also be more sensitive to it.

I suggest trying a value of 50 or 100 or more, and see if it helps.

ASIO-Guard
The ASIO-Guard allows you to shift as much processing as possible from the ASIO realtime path to the ASIO-Guard processing path. This results in a more stable system.

The ASIO-Guard allows you to preprocess all channels as well as VST instruments that do not need to be calculated in realtime. This leads to less dropouts, the ability to process more tracks or plug-ins, and the ability to use smaller buffer sizes.

https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artist/v9/en/cubase_nuendo/topics/optimizing/asio_guard_c.html