Beside different pan laws, some programmers use different calculations for dB values. I noticed that while programming and having a look at some code.

The correct way is using 20 * log10, which results in 20 dB for 10 times the level and 6.0206 dB for 2 times the level. Playing back 2 identical tracks at the same time is causing a level of +6.0206 dB, which is often rounded to 6.0 for convenience, but it's not exact.

Some are doing a simpler math just using exactly 6 dB for 2 times the level. This is enough to not null anymore, especially with many tracks and gain stages. For example Reapers "JS Volume Adjustment" is doing that.

 

Sonically no, I don't enjoy the track. The groove is good and all but there's no punch or clarity, instead there's this cloudy midrange (phasey) which I associate with Ableton now. Ever since I got my lynx Hilo I cannot unhear what Jon Castelli said when he mentioned the same midrange smear from Ableton projects he gets. This has nothing to do with your production skills, so don't take this the wrong way.

And yes, many famous producers use ableton who have great sonics but they sure as hell don't mix down in them. Instead they usually have a mixing engineer who gets the multitracks and runs them through pro tools with some nice hardware pieces. This is nothing new to people in the industry, but still gets people on forums mad for some reason lol

 

The track I posted up there has all been done with Ableton. It sounds fine to me.

 

Yes, most great mixes are done on pro tools, logic and cubase. Take from that what you will

 

Can you post me something that has been recorded on logic and I will compare then for my own benefit..

No offence taken by the way.. I'm always willing to learn something new.

 

Somebody sounds like an ungrateful baby... I personally WANT my dik to be bigger... poor me. Holy shit, dude. Be grateful for what you have, learn to use the DAW you have and stop complaining so much!

FYI. DAWs don't SOUND any different than one another, thats just a lie from the DAW companies for you to buy their products. Its not the DAWs that the problem. It's the user thats needs to learn their DAW first.

Peace and Hate

 

Pro tools UI just looks intimidating for me, and I don't have mac. Maybe I'll give cubase a try for mixing.

 

I don't know anyone who produces primarily in logic to be honest. Maybe Brian Eno or John Hopskins? Dennis Ferrer I think too. Actually I remember reading Brian Eno produced this album completely in Logic, no hardware used. I don't like itb mixes, but it still has clarity and punch.

 

It must be something like that,the summing/playback algorithm engine whatever, thats the only thing I've ever thought it could be. I use cubase n logic , tried studio one for like ten minutes fl studio briefly and bitwig ,they to me all sound similar ,all good ,or nothing sticks out treble sounds good mid and bass they all seem to have got the depth also . I Like reason also but that to me sounds a bit different than the rest as well.

 

i don't know how some people cant hear it, but when u mix in cubase or just tap drum pads or whatever, straight away just sounds more cleaner ,polished ,punchier, just my opinion.If ableton workflow was on top and had cubase algorithm behind it, game over ableton would be the only daw id ever use or need lol

 

Lol, what is it with people like him hahaha. It's like I was insulting their mother or some shit. Weird how hurt their feelings get when I state something obvious for anyone who tries the test themself.

Did you compare Cubase and Pro Tools directly? David Kahne says he even prefers Cubase to Pro Tools

 

Grater random question, are u on mac or pc?

 

I don't know how much of the difference is down to Logic or Ableton OR the fact you are comparing my mix to that of a seasoned professional but if there is something I can learn.. Trust me, I will

 

After the football of course.

 

This is just my view to u directly so no discussion lol .To me pro tools sounds upfront, Logic ,maschine and fl got body, cubase sounds clean/open, reason sounds middy, but not bad middy. and live like u said has something i find hard to describe , like a overall sound on top of it.if that makes sense.

 

That is a good explanation. Thank you

 

It seems you have already chosen what is a fact for you instead of trying to find the real problem with your setup making both your Logic and Ableton output sounding so different than the input.

If you had a listen to my file recorded in realtime using Abletons "garbage" playback engine through an RME Babyface Pro in to another DAW, you would have to admit that it's perfectly fine and not phasy or anything.

Simply ignoring this and using statements of other people to fortify your impression that Ableton "sounds phasy in general" doesn't help you in any way to find the problem.

Surely, many Ableton projects or mixes sound phasy and smeared, because the user simply didn't care about warping or even very much enjoyed how easy it is to put loops and recordings together without caring for the exact original tempo. So it is easy to find hundreds of threads about Ableton "sounding bad", but that is only because of the warping, and not a bad "playback engine".

In fact, a "playback engine" is not different from the offline render, as long as no plugins use different algorithms for (faster, more CPU friendly) realtime playback and higher offline render quality. This may be an important point with some complex plugins, as the plugin programmer has the option to use different code for realtime and offline rendering.

 

I think the easiest way for you to get what he means, is get the pre master of your track , and like he described before have live and another daw open at the same time and just play the track back and just listen see if you can hear any difference A /B between daws.. u might not but u might also.

 

Baby