Any wood workers here?

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by aymat, Jan 15, 2022.

  1. aymat

    aymat Audiosexual

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    Over the pandemic I've been designing a custom studio desk. Initially I had considered building it with birch but now I'm looking into paulownia. This is my first attempt at any type of woodworking so if there is any one here familiar with paulownia and has worked with it in the past, I would love to pick your brain a bit.

    From what Ive read, paulownia is far cheaper than birch and pretty light hardwood but I'm unsure about its the overall strength. I plan on using 25mm planks to build out the desk and matching cabinet but not sure if this is strong enough to hold around 90kg (200lbs) worth of gear. Does anyone here have any experience with paulownia for furniture design and can confirm that it is strong enough to support that much weight?


    Screenshots of the desk/cabinet

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. fiction

    fiction Audiosexual

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    25mm planks should be more than enough to easily hold that weight. No worries at all.
    How are you going to finish the surface?
     
  4. ptpatty

    ptpatty Platinum Record

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    I work with my wood now and then, especially when my wife's away!
    Sorry...just had to..
     
  5. creatureofthenight

    creatureofthenight Ultrasonic

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    I've been involved in fine woodwork and carpentry a long time. I've never used paulownia. I don't think its too common in the US. Looking into it, it looks like a very soft hardwood, maybe even softer than Poplar, which puts it closer to pine in terms of hardness. Just know, denting and dings will be much more common. Birch is great for surfaces. Its why its such a popular choice for cabinets.

    If it were me, I'd use birch plywood for all walls, just like a cabinet build, and veneer the ends. The strength from it being plywood will be fantastic, Anything structural like any cross bars, legs, etc, could use something like the paulownia if you wanted to save some money. 3/4 inch Birch Plywood (sold as 19 or 20mm, I think), or the 23mm would be great for almost everything in those pictures. For doors and backers, using a contrasting hardwood always looks awesome.

    Also, make sure you at least dado the big joinery. I'm not saying you need to mortise and tenon anything, but don't just use but joints and screws. For example, any shelves, take the time to make a dado for the shelf to rest in. Same with the tops and bottoms. You can do this easily with a router or table saw. Its the only way to ensure this will stay structurally sound and not start to sag or twist. You can keep it possible to take it apart this way without losing strength.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
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  6. aymat

    aymat Audiosexual

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    Im thinking about ebonizing it with an iron acetate solution. These two video are what Ive been using as inspiration:



     
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  7. aymat

    aymat Audiosexual

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    Yeah paulownia is readily available here in Spain and probably the cheapest hardwood you can find as far as I can tell. I've heard people compare paulownia to pine which to be honest Im ok with. I almost decided on pine for the build but read that paulowina is apparently stronger, half the weight and cheaper so it seemed like a good option.

    I do like your suggestion of making the walls birch for structural support, I hadn't considered that. Also, regarding dado joints, how deep should they be?

    One other question I have is regarding the pull out tray holding the large keyboard. I don't plan on having anything heavier than 20lbs on that board but wondered if it would bend over time. Would the size of that board (300mm x 1505mm x 25mm) support that weight easily without warping?

    Lastly, regarding the cabinet doors, since they are inset, do you have any recommendations for hinges that would work best for these?

    Thank you so much for your input by the way, I really appreciate it <3
     
  8. JMOUTTON

    JMOUTTON Audiosexual

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    12-15mm dado depth should be good enough for glued and nailed joints.

    A wide pull out panel drawer that will not sag will need something to keep it from sagging. You can either run aluminum or carbon fiber rails in a dado underneath or in a laminated double panel for support or use a hardwood like maple.

    You might want to consider support rails on the underside of your desk surface as well to keep the top from cupping or sagging.

    Also if you are going to paint and seal and are not interested in the grain or texture of natural wood, consider MDF and melamine for a beginner project. You can probably get it pre-cut to order. The results of these projects rely tremendously on the quality of the cuts, dados and rabbets.

    You also might want to reconsider the ergonomics, you need a little more empty space, seems cool to have everything so close, but in usage having things with in easy reach but empty spaces to set down a notebook a tablet or a book is a huge advantage.
     
  9. creatureofthenight

    creatureofthenight Ultrasonic

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    About the dado depth- if you end up using 3/4 (19mm) which is a common size sheets of plywood are sold in, you would only want to make them about 1/4 inch, or 4.75 mm's. Too deep and you'll create a weak point.

    Looking at it like a cabinet build (with more support, clearly) might make finding tutorials a bit easier, since the style you designed bares a lot of similarities.

    As far as the keyboard tray- I'm using a 48 inch (122cm) long piece of MDF (which, by the way would also be a great choice for the walls and tops if you want to paint the whole thing black. It will be as smooth as can be, but you wont have that cool wood look) and I have slider rails rated for 50lbs on each side. I can find the Amazon listing. I veneered the MDF, as it sucks with getting wet. If you use a long piece of birch plywood, you'd be fine, but anything softer, like a long single piece of any kind of hardwood would be susceptible to warping over the seasons.

    Lastly, as far as the hinges, I believe standard offset hinges would work. You could also use small flat folding hinges and cut recesses for them with a chisel in both the side of the door and the area the door meets the wall. You see that a lot in entertainment centers and such.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
  10. Donut Nyamer

    Donut Nyamer Audiosexual

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    Didn't know there were so many people in here Jesusing their own studio furniture. I actually think that's wicked you guys are building your own studio desks.

    I'm about to build my own studio treatment like traps and so on because Glenn Fricker from SMG made a vid about which seemed simple enough. But you guys are on a whole other level in here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
  11. fiction

    fiction Audiosexual

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    Add two steel rails left and right plus an L-shaped profile on the front and it won't bend, even if you'd only use 15mm.

    Whatever they use in kitchen furniture. I've used some super stable ones from a digging box at IKEA's
     
  12. clone

    clone Audiosexual

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    there are surely "other factors" like your flooring type/s and layout, but I would really recommend re-considering using caster wheels. 8 for the desk and 4 for the rack/cabinet. Better than tearing up your floors. These get so heavy when loaded up like you plan to.
     
  13. Olymoon

    Olymoon MODERATOR Staff Member

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    I'm not sure if the image you posted is accurate, but if it is, the lower keyboard will be difficult to use as it is not protruding .
     
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  14. fiction

    fiction Audiosexual

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    Not only that, also when moving left and right to operate the other instruments, the two lower racks could be in the way. They look like they're to deep (and could be hit with your knees).
     
  15. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    Paulownia

    The glued wood panel from Exclusiv Holz is made of solid paulownia (bluebell tree). Despite its low weight, this type of wood is extremely dimensionally stable and versatile. The Paulownia laminated wood panel is ideal for light furniture and shelving construction or wherever weight reduction is desired.

    After treatment, the surface is hard and durable. Note: Solid glued wood panels are a natural product and each panel is unique. These natural properties may differ from the product image. The slat widths can vary depending on the type of wood, format and batch. Always treat on both sides and on all edges and cutouts to avoid warping of the wood. Gluing D3 formaldehyde-free.

    A Fascinating Material: 8 Facts About Paulownia Wood.

    Three times lighter than oak wood.
    The kiri tree from the Paulownia genus is the fastest growing tree in the world - and its wood is one of the lightest. It weighs only 250 to 350 kilograms per cubic meter. That corresponds to a third of the weight of a cubic meter of oak wood. The low weight makes this type of wood the ideal building material wherever every gram counts: in ship and boat building, in tiny houses and caravanning, in interior design, for packaging and for sports equipment such as surfboards and skis.

    High relative strength.
    Thanks to its honeycomb cell wall structure, the wood is very strong in relation to its weight and has exceptional stability. Paulownia wood is therefore called "the aluminum among woods".

    Exceptionally weatherproof.
    In contrast to other types of wood, paulownia wood can be processed particularly well outdoors . Due to its special properties, moisture dries very quickly - this counteracts the growth of moss, fungi and lichen. In tests lasting several months, the Burckhardt Institute at the University of Göttingen proved that the wood does not crack, warp or warp even after prolonged weathering .

    Insulates well.
    As the tree grows, it traps a relatively large amount of air in its cells. This gives the wood very good insulating properties. Paulownia wood has an insulating effect that is about twice as high as oak wood (thermal conductivity paulownia: 0.09, oak: 0.2). This predestines it for the construction of saunas, houses and mobile homes, doors, windows and blinds as well as for cladding house facades.

    Holds shape.
    The wood is extremely dimensionally stable , even in environments with fluctuating humidity. Its shrinkage and swelling behavior is very low.

    Seems valuable.
    The wood is light in colour, has a delicate and regular grain and is pleasant to the touch - the surface is remarkably smooth. Only the wood of first-class cared for paulownia trees from European plantations makes it into the Kiritec range. Their dead-straight seams are almost knot-free. This even wood looks extraordinarily valuable . The precious wood of the paulownia tree is therefore particularly suitable for areas of application in which the appearance is also important - for example for furniture construction, coffins and musical instruments. In Japan, kimono cabinets are traditionally made from it.

    Flame retardant.
    Paulownia wood has a comparatively high flash point : it only catches fire at more than 400 °C. For comparison: the flash point of a pine is 225 °C.

    Easy and versatile to process.
    Whether as plywood, laminated wood panels, core board, squared timber or plywood: Paulownia wood is very easy and versatile to process, both by hand and by machine . Boards and products made of paulownia do not splinter and absorb varnish and glaze very well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
  16. kimikaze

    kimikaze Platinum Record

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    Is nice visually and compact, but this design as it is, have some ergonomic problems. For example monitor is to high. With 2,5cm thick wood if you want protrude your master keyboard out to play, it need to be placed above your knees for comfortable seating position when playing, which also mean your top working area will be probably to high. Next, under the table you want to have more room for legs(left and right)as others already mentioned. So you can stretch out your legs and not worry constantly to hit something. With rack under table as it is you will fell congested with your legs and you will always lean under table if you want to reach and change some parameters. Don't know how much room you have, but i would completely clean bottom. Make tabletop simpler, without undertray for master keyboard (maybe only for keyboard and mous). Moving master keyboard on one side on own stand and standalone gear rack on other side. Also i would make rounded tabletop, for easier reach.
     
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  17. Pronto

    Pronto Kapellmeister

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    looking forward to getting stuck in with it aymat?...re: weight bearing ...i'm guessing you may be thinking hard about the design , i can relate.
    i'm guessing that it will easily be able to handle the weight with the wood you mention..i've found its often about the structural design and the tension within it as much as the bulk and stiffness. with the black, are you going for a hi-tech look..or rather, how high on the list are aesthetics for you?
    i know this probably sounds a bit leftfield, but would you be willing to consider the sourcing of the wood..it needn't be more expensive, but when i build something larger, it helps (the planet and my righteousness) i think, if its from as sustainable a source as possible. even used wood..there must be millions of these woodwork projects going on in some form every week and it can help to ease the burden?
     
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  18. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
  19. Polomo

    Polomo Guest

    Are 25 mm enough .

    Yes :
    Values are for birch,
    for paulownia you have to divide everything by 3.


    Bruchlast 1.JPG
    Bruchlast 2.JPG Source :
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiGgYGw2rb1AhXjUOUKHSiaDOwQFnoECA8QAQ&url=https://www.sperragjago.ch/fr/index.php?section=Downloads&download=97&usg=AOvVaw0HiECRpBlTU1BK0S0lY5iv


    Still strong enough, but Pine is stronger and less pressure sensitive (And in my eyes the better choice for your project ) With paulownia scratches can become a problem.
    Why do I think this ... because this shelf I build my self has a load of around 400 kg (And just to test I sat on it with additional 95 kg so 495 kg in total maybe more ).
    Materials are a combination of Pine and MDF, glued and screwed.:winker:
    IMG_20220116_175948.jpg
    (Every stone has 0,5-3kg )
    For your design, it's really good, but for the stability there should be some cross bracings (roughly the height of the red lines/picture)(they don't have to be on the same level and should be around the half height of the desk ).
    They can be wooden or metal, and it doesn't matter if it's a simple rod or a plate, but they have to be there.
    If not, there is a chance that the hole desk will simply fold up.
    The second thing is the center of gravity (bulge front ). Perhaps it just the pictures, but I have a bit a felling that without a wall mounting this can become a lever and tilts.
    The last thing is the same as Olymoon wrote, the keys, if they are not extensible, would be hard to play.
    desk3.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2022
  20. kimikaze

    kimikaze Platinum Record

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    BEAT16 i mean computer display(in my country is often called just monitor :) ), not speakers. But my mistake:wink:
     
  21. AudioTee

    AudioTee Kapellmeister

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