You kind of aren't.

What you're saying is, they didn't suck when there were nothing better. I can get that.
What I'm saying is, there are lots and lots of all-around better tools right now. A skilled engineer can do a good mix in a GarbageBand or with Dead Duck plugs, so the fact that you can mix well with Waves only speaks of you.

 

Exactly. That is said perfectly.
Again, this proves that everything is contextual...
If I was born 10 years later I may be raving about iZotope or someone newer.
There are so many good developers now that I end up using a smattering of plugins from very many devs on a song.
And hardly any Waves now, it's true.
But great name engineers I have worked with as a musician have worked wonders with Waves, constantly.
Most devs are all using the same algos and maths anyway, so all this doesn't really matter to me now, after so long.
If I have to gaffa tape a song together, I will!
Whatever gets the track finished is all that matters.
Apart from a small handful of helpful plugins recently, everything else is 'much of a muchness', as is said in the UK.

Yes. But they don't suck now either!
How can they if they were so widely used?
So really, "better" is mostly nonsense. imo.
Apart from a few helpful plugins that have recenty surfaced over the last several years.
I have used PluginDoctor on lots of my plugins, so I am aware of what is absolute rubbish and snake oil, and what is useable.
When we get rid of the snake oil, there is hardly any "better" or best really.
Just as with anything else in life.
It all just comes down to preference and budget.
Even though every DAW out there has most everything we need anyway regards tools to complete a track!

 

Last edited: Jan 4, 2022

u said a lot bro some of they old plugins are very good if u people know how to use them

 

@F.L.O.W. I can't agree that it's all contextual. Whenever a mixing engineer approaches a track, there is a multitude of small, but very specific tasks and goals they set for themselves. Said tasks and goals can be incredibly varied, but they are nonetheless fairly specific and technical.
I argue that, for any and every more or less common task, there's a better fitting tool on the market than Waves.
I also argue that with Waves, it's easier to mess up the mix quality than it is to improve it.

You are also not exactly right about the maths. Maths is what distinguishes the greatest developers from the good ones. Sure lots of good devs regurgitate the same algos, but the greatest ones devise their own.

 

Oh..it seems you re at the start of your amazing musician composer life, so as some one already wrote in this thread, presets are only a starting point where you can understand how the fx parameters works, now you can imagine if a single preset would be able to fix all the vocal tracks in the music universe? Impossible, all will be sooo boring because all the music will be the same…isn’t it?
So, just what you need to catch in a preset, is a concept study, try to modify some parameters, for example in a compressor try to set the treshold to zero then slowly increase and understand with your ears what is happening…this is only your start.
For well understand how fx are working today you have a nice powerful internet toy called youtube, just query it and learn how much you can about reverbs, delay, compressors, preamp…is all about a vocalist needs to know a bit even how to use as insert or sends, you will discover one nice thing…(spoiler) you are an artist: producer, dj, vocalist, musician drummer or guitarist or whatever you are..you FIRST ARE AN ARTIST, so once you will learn the basic mixing rules you will learn also that you can break em with your creativity.
In the sister site you can find alot of tutorials..i can say to you that basic rules wants preamp-compressor in insert and reverb and delay in send but you can find tons of right suggestions that can say to you to use fx in another way….
Welcome in this amazing world, there is also some nice sites where u can learn about training your hears…in my 80’s this was impossible..
try for training your ears (for understand how fx also working) https://www.soundgym.co/
And for the rest try youtube as i told you or also the sister site has a nice document section.
Enjoy my old 2 cents experience

 

Yes! And I said:

With no snake oil, as I said, we are only ever dealing with good devs...

Yes! And I said:

So you are just echoing me and we agree.
Cheers.
Please look more precisely at what people write!

Ah! Unfortunately for you you have unwittingly proved me right!
EVERYTHING in life is contextual!
It will be hard for you to prove me wrong. It's been well studied and I've already been through this decades ago!
Seriously. Context is everything.

 

Absolutely right!

 

All of those we've spoken of here devise their own. That's the point. The common algos are pretty much not a thing in a context of our discussion. This is why I felt it's worth pointing out.

 

Cool. I just feel I already covered it and you were pin pointing things that I had already implied.
But "context"? Hard to disagree with logically, is all.

 

I'd replace "Contextual" with "Subject to causality", but okay.
I take issue with how you used contextuality to dismiss Waves' shittiness. By this logic, the shittiest noisiest aliasiest SoundSpot compressor can't be called shitty because it can make the synthetic drums reamped through the loudspeaker in the next room and recorded in 8bit/22kHz more pronounced if you use it in parallel with hardware Elysia Alpha and some zynaptiq restoration.
That's not how contextuality works. It might be contextually good in this specific circumstances, provided you can recreate them with any degree of consistency, but it's still universally shitty.

 

Last edited: Jan 4, 2022

Don't remember that at all!

So, quite the opposite...if you pay attention as I asked already! Just saying.

The prior sentence you made? Agreed! haha What are you on? hehe
Carry on "taking issue" if you want.
I already said it's not debatable. So with me, it's not debatable!
I'd like to put you in a room with Professors Of Music I know.
Then you'll be on my level re. context.

Topic:
Yes, presets suck!
Next!

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anyways, I'm done with off-topic, Oly plz dont ban

 

I think that the default preset of Fab Filter Pro-R doesn't suck and I use it a lot on my vocal treatment. Bang out of the box is what sold me on it.

 

You can try waves Studiorack.
The presets will combine the waves plugins.
I use the Sean divine studiorack presets.
They're awesome.

 

Presets are always just a starting point, so you have to adjust them at least a little depending on what you want it to sound like, especially reverb.

If you want the simplest insert chain to get good sounding vocals with Waves plugins, just try R or H-EQ into CLA-2A and a little [10-30% wet] H-Delay at the end. 2A is almost like a preset compressor and it sounds excellent on vocals. All you need to choose is how much to compress or limit. Limiter mode has higher ratio, so it's better for drums, and compressor mode with lower ratio is better for vocals, but you might find the limiter mode sounding better for vocals in some particular case. Just use your ears and listen to the whole mix, not just soloed.

I used to use Waves a lot, but it was until about a decade ago. I don't use them any more because there are better sounding plugins nowadays. I still think Renaissance, Hybrid, CLA, Vintage and SSL series Waves plugins are absolutely usable to make a great sounding production, though.

Anyway, some EQ to shape the vocal before compressing it with some LA-2A, LA-3A, or Urei-1176 emulation, [maybe some saturator here], some nice sounding delay plugin at the end if needed, and a bit of reverb you like either as an insert or send effect. For vocals it works better to have it as the last plugin in the insert chain. That's the vocal chain I would recommend to anyone who's not very experienced with mixing.

My 2p. Cheers!

 

Last edited: Jan 4, 2022

I want to thanks each and everyone of you for your help and insight. This thread has been a great source of information for me and I have already a lot to do and learn from it. I am now going to study Eventide BlackHole, FabFilter, RC20 and Valhalla to see what comes out of it! It would be nice to know which TDR modules are also recommended for live vocal recording.
Can't thank you guys enough