And to say a little bit more about the Time factor..

Not only it's affected by what's being played in the Present moment,
but also what has been played Before, and what will be played After..


Again the intellectual/theoretical possibilities may exist,
but in view of that Context, some options/choices will be empirically perceived as being more correct,
or say natural/pleasing than other..

So there's a Retroactive effect of harmony,
what has been played Before will affect what you're playing Now,
and sometimes help determine if it's more or less correct/adequate..

And also a Forward (proactive?) effect,
what's gonna be played in the next moments After, will have an effect on the perception of what's being played Now..


Ofc one can always stretch a bit the limits, and be more/less edgy with it,
touching, or even surpassing the boundaries of theoretical or subjective correctness..

And that's one factor that can define one's personal style/approach,
or even the music style that's being played.

Like, playin over a Blues turnaround with simple Pentatonic scales,
VS playing Major scale Modes, Melodic minor Modes, Chromatic notes, Diminished scales..

Or music which is 100% Diatonic vs music with a lot of Chromatism,
it could be Classical, Folk, Rock, Jazz.. or a dude playing a bunch of chromatic passing notes over a Blues progression.

Sometimes the stuff is more tonally/vertically defined,
and the chromatic notes are more structurally/harmonically Bound to a more defined, and hence restrictive Context..

But sometimes the notes can be more free-standing, and be perceived as chromatic decorative or passing notes,
which may help decorate or give more flavor to the music being played..

And well that would be one example, but I digress..


But the thing is: Time is a factor in all of this,
and it will have a direct effect when determining what's the tonality,
what's all the Possible tonalities, or even what's the Best/most appropriate/practical tonality in any given moment..

So.. Context, subjective Perception, aesthetic valoration, and even Time,
are some of the factors to consider when determining/choosing a tonality..

In the sea of all the Theoretically/intellectually Correct possibilities that will exist at any given moment.

 

After reading this thread I'm just going to conclude that tonic is the stuff that goes well with gin.

 

So you're trying to scare me off... right?

Do you mean we have not only Dude's retinue around but also clones and, even more terrible, this last sample being a twisted version just fled from kindergarten?

God forbid...

 

A rational civility/courtesy display?
I hope your attitude helps setting the example in here.
Very much appreciated. We're set.

Cheers

 

@Ŧยχøя

So mate, needless to say pretty good insights...
but probably way over countless heads around.

Could we trim it down to basics/foundations initially? i.e. Major / minor tonalities at first? Others last? Progressively?

Cheers

 

Your "Zero proper answerings" assertion was a truly bizarre thing to say,
especially as you then go on to quote one the answers provided. (a classic and useful dictionary definition)

But here's an alternative observation....
You have now made 10 comments yourself in this thread,
and I cannot find a single idea, expressed in any one of them, about what you think tonality means.
Is that not really bizarre?
Maybe instead of critiquing others contributions you could try making some yourself?
We've got the dictionary definitions already, so how about some interesting reflections (of your own) about actual ideas.

and I assume you will have read everything else here first so that you can explicitly refer to where your ideas
(should there be any) either agree with, or disagree with, or build upon the multitude of ideas already expressed.

 

Last edited: Dec 8, 2021

I love the way you tried to keep that down to a single page. Nicely introduced.
That simple little phrase 'about the time factor' is a book waiting to be written.

 

You don't have to over-think the answer to this question.

Totality simply refers to music built around a specific tonal centre during a given movement in a piece. This can include modes, unusual scales, and 'borrowing' of notes from other scales, so long as there is a clear 'centre of gravity' so to speak. Moving away from the tonal centre feels like a journey and moving back feels like a sense of home. Even if there are just two chords...

This is not to be confused with functional harmony which emphasises tonic (or mediant substitutions) -> subdominant ->dominant ->tonic relationships, and borrowing of chords or notes is always with reference the "major" scale.

 

Assuming @Freetobestolen has put forward this question from a position of knowledge, he is in effect conducting a class or holding a seminar. In which case, he may ask students for their thoughts first, but then as the expert in the room, will reveal his theories and thoughts, thus allowing us his own personal ideas. Yet he is reticent to do so. He is very much like his doppelganger @MMJ2017 in this respect. Taunting and berating and ultimately revealing nothing concrete. Like, oh let's say, a piece of original music to display what the previous 200 posts have been about. Apart from throwing insults at each other. As stated by @Olymoon, this barely qualifies as education.

 

Well, if this impression comes out as true, I declare that I simply detest these pedantic academic mannerisms: Full of judgments about why people who categorize things using common sense should eagerly seek out elements that are on the periphery of the categorization process for pure pleasure of demonstrating knowledge (intellectual masturbation) aimed at obtaining symbolic capital (projection/social valuation that comes from struggles/conflict in which influence/power relationships aim to make an ideology stand out and influence a given group). Indeed, this approach works best in universities and conservatories, where there are disciplines where "advisors" (the true knowers and guardians of knowledge) have fun putting their students in cockfights at music seminars. A complete imbecility (I mean, not the seminars per se, but the taunting and berating context! )...

 

Last edited: Dec 8, 2021

Firstly. my comment here comes on top of me liking what you said - a lot.
I get your point (completely) and agree 100%

Aside: I also love the typo - defining 'Totality' has always been a real challenge

So my response here is not a criticism at all - but something I think we all need to observe and which we all regularly forget; something along the lines of "one man's meat is another man's poison".

So, if I take either of your paragraphs above and then contrast it with your comment "you don't have to over-think the answer..." I get reminded of "who defines over-thinking?" Someone could easily claim there was a lot of music-theory over-thinking required for you to be able to understand and write those paragraphs.

Anecdote [1] ... (a caricature)
- Person A in a band says "This song is in C Major; at this part we play an F Major chord; then we play an F minor chord..."
- Person B says "Hang on a minute, F minor is not in Key of C Major, what's happening?"
- Person C says "Read about borrowed chords / modal interchange"
- Person A says "No, don't over-think it, just play the F minor it sounds great after the F Major"
Am I supposed to take sides and support A or support C?

Anecdote [2]... (another caricature)
Has there ever been a day when I learned something and then said "hey I just learned too much - I've over-thunk it" ?
Not really; I do love Homer Simpson but he's never going to be my role model.

I'm inherently suspicious about how, if you ask a hundred people "how much is ideal to know?",
95 of them will tell you that the ideal amount to know is just exactly what they know (an amazing cosmic coincidence).
Only 5 of them will tell you that the ideal amount to know is always a damn site more than they already know.

So, I tend to regard over-thinking as an oxymoron.
It works only in the context that Olymoon mentioned where 24 hours in the day means something has to get compromised.
Apart from that constraint there is no such thing as over-thinking - except for Homer Simpson who reliably claims that pushing stuff into his brain on one side means pushing something else out to make room - bless him.

Cheers

 

is dat u foster ??? cheeky devil hahahahahahahaha

 

Not trying to scare you. I just want to save you of doing ridiculous, as they are not the same person.

 

HOPE ENDS WITH A BANG

 

Typo was totes by accident!

Your reply was an example of over-thinking it.

There doesn't have to be a universally agreed upon definition. You are the musician, you can do whatever you like so long as you are prepared to own the result. Understand that most music "theory" is just convention.

See the second half of this track from the early 80s for some inspiration.

 

Tonality is a hierarchical system whereupon all tones are not equally important. As you move away from the most important tones, tension is created and then resolved by moving back to those tones. This movement drives most western music.

 

I said... "One mans's meat is another man's poison"
You said... "There doesn't have to be a universally agreed upon definition"
So we do agree on respecting the idea of 'diversity rules - tastes differ - agree to disagree'.

Which is just as well because the track you offered 'as inspiration' just left me pissing myself with laughter.
It sounded to me like someone went to art college, read page 1 of 'how to pretend to be avant garde' and failed to realise that the pamphlet was a joke.
Good title though - "I am cold" - should be extended with "and my music is even colder"

Seriously though, it sounded to me like someone was desperately trying much too hard to sound counter-fashionable.
(over-thinking how to sound cool) and ended up sounding vacuously dull.
Contrived spontaneity - never works for me - I want the real thing.

Nice bass though! but couldn't save the track.

Sincerely - It's truly great that we all have diverse tastes.

 

Last edited: Dec 9, 2021