Hi I'm trying to make my setup USB-less.

I connect the Midi OUT of my Motu to the Microfreak IN - as soon as I disconnect the USB cable, Ableton using External Instrument track will continue to send whichever Midi I'm sending from Ableton but the Microfreak won't play sound anymore (yes, before you say it - the audio cable is well connected from the Synth to the soundcard).

Same with my Minibrute 2S.

I was under the impression you can use the Motu M4's own Midi ports just like any other Midi keyboard/synth? And therefore, no longer need USB in the chain.

What am I doing wrong? Is it something special in Ableton's preferences?

 

Hi I'm trying to make my setup USB-less.

I connect the Midi OUT of my Motu to the Microfreak IN - as soon as I disconnect the USB cable, Ableton using External Instrument track will continue to send whichever Midi I'm sending from Ableton but the Microfreak won't play sound anymore (yes, before you say it - the audio cable is well connected from the Synth to the soundcard).

Same with my Minibrute 2S.

I was under the impression you can use the Motu M4's own Midi ports just like any other Midi keyboard/synth? And therefore, no longer need USB in the chain.

What am I doing wrong? Is it something special in Ableton's preferences?

 

you'll need to have motu's midi enabled in ableton as well as changing the midi device from the microfreak to motu's, otherwise what you're doing sound right

 

Fist of all, the M4 is bus powered so as soon as you disconnect it, it will stop working.

 

You should have 1 usb-C cable from the computer to the M4. One MIDI cable from the M4 MIDI Out to the Microfreak Midi In. One Midi cable from the M4 Midi In to the Microfreak Midi out.

I do not use Ableton. In Logic, I would simply select a Midi channel and route it's output to the external Midi Device. I would not disconnect anything, and then expect it to continue functioning.

 

Nope, you ALWAYS need to keep it connected. Otherwise it won't be able to communicate with your PC.

Better yet, if you're using the M4 just for MIDI, why not use the Microfreak's USB output?

 

Ha yes indeed, my bad xD Thanks!

 

Okay my bad guys... I just changed send Midi > to Motu in Ableton's External Instrument.

Done!

Thanks.

 

I thought about this a little more and now have a question back for you.

What are you trying to accomplish by "getting rid of USB-c" ? I ask because I am in agreement with Xeraser's point.

Why would you rather deal with any external synth as "5 pin din" midi, instead of midi over usb from DAW direct to synth? At best, you are consuming Midi ports for a device that doesn't need to use them. The M4 only has 1x1

 

Yeah, he's gonna have to use USB either way unless he's got a PCIe interface with MIDI. Don't know how Microfreak external editors work but on my Motif XF you HAVE to use the USB-MIDI (or Firewire) for it to work at all, you can't simply use the MIDI ports. (I don't even get why, are SYSEX messages sent via standard MIDI ports and cables not good enough? Is it to ensure that you don't send the wrong messages to the wrong devices?)

I'd NEVER leave my interface disconnected but if you're low on USB ports (e.g. the Macbook curse of the "I'm too cheap to buy a good USB hub" variety - totally not me, nope) then yeah, MF > Motu with MIDI cables is your best bet, even if you're not gonna record audio.

 

Yes actually good question which I also thought about. Because now all my MIDI on the M4 is busy obviously xD

Someone on Reddit advised me to get this https://www.thomann.de/gb/midi_solutions_quadra_thru_v2.htm

Would that mean that with the Quadra Thru I could have 4 Midi ports connected to the Motu? But IN or OUT?

Also I have:

- a Keystep Pro with one IN and two OUTs.
- a Roland SE 02 (IN and OUT)
- a Digitakt (IN and OUT)
- the MicroFreak
- the Minibrute 2S

What would be the most effective setup from a Midi/Ableton perspective?

Is it possible to link it all smoothly via Midi without the Midi Solutions Quadra Thru? Are all synths above Midi Thru compatible?

If you could lay out your ideal setup in this configuration that would really help xD

 

>reddit
oh god not again

That's a 1 IN to 4 OUT, meaning it's for something like a master keyboard that controls a bunch of other devices but doesn't need to receive any data.

All of those have a USB port, the best solution is a good externally-powered USB hub. TB3/USB-C hub on a 2016+ Apple device, regular USB3 hub on anything else.

And trust me, a bunch of micro-usb/USB-B cables are gonna be much cheaper than a bunch of MIDI cables.

The standard 5-pin MIDI connector has been largely superseded by USB-MIDI, most of the devices that still support it are either for convenience (e.g. interfaces) or to ""keep old gear alive"" without having to buy a myriad of USB-MIDI cables (trust me, the cheapo ones are garbage)

Most of the devices in the second category are meant more for recording studios with dozens of MIDI devices with no USB-MIDI

 

Last edited: Dec 5, 2021

I avoid using Thru in any configuration I am trying to figure out and setup. I will use Midi Thru if necessary, but I just do not like to plan for this. Because, each Thru connection introduces *some* latency. The general rule of thumb is to never use more than 1 consecutive Thru connection. Sort of like Daisy-Chaining. It's usually easier to just avoid using Thru all together from the jump.

I'll give a look at your devices and see if anything is more obvious. But I 100% agree that you should go Midi over USB in any situation you can. Your DAW software then communicates directly with the device; rather than communication with a device, that then is connected via Midi cables (possible source of data lag). Also, routing is easier to keep track of with USB connections, because an External Instrument plugin (like in Logic or Ableton) will actually show the Device Name, rather than just the IO name (such as m4 in your case).

I have a very cheap 7 Port USB 2.0 Insignia hub I use for some USB midi devices (Behringer toys). It was like 20 bucks at Best Buy and works great for that kind of thing.(Midi is such "small" data) Otherwise, I use a more serious Thunderbolt3 hub as mentioned.

One thing I will mention, I use a M2 also (sampling); but it is not my main interface. I usually connect it to my tb3 hub with a USB-C (m2 side) to USB-A (hub side) cable, and it works really well when connected to a hub. Normally, I am reluctant to connect audio interface via hub or even cable adapters. you can get some unpredictable things that way.

you have 5 devices that can all be USB. I'd get a 7 port USB 3.0 hub with USB-A type ports. You will need one usb A 3.0 -> USB-C cable for the Roland if you don't have one. The rest you should already have. Get a good reliable hub, since you will be using it for many devices.

 

Last edited: Dec 5, 2021

This is a bit technical but TL;DR the reason why you're getting those "unpredictable things" is because you're using a bus-powered USB hub. And probably one that doesn't respect proper power delivery specifications.
Get a mains-powered USB-3 (connected to a USB-3 port, of course) hub and you'll be able to use the M2 and other devices that require a lot of power (e.g. external HDDs) without issues.

Long answer:
Bus-powered USB hubs can't (officially) supply full power to the downstream ports. You have the original port's power (900mA for USB-3) minus the USB hub's own power draw. Most bus-powered hubs draw around 150-200mA of power. Each USB-3 port on the hub MUST reserve at least 150mA of power PER PORT (as per the 3.0 specification - 2.0 spec reserves 100mA instead as a hard cap)
What's worse is that cheap hubs often don't bother implementing the VBUS power-off function (as per spec) so all USB ports are active at all times, reserving power for ports whose devices aren't even plugged in yet.

 

Last edited: Dec 5, 2021