"One of the most important reasons that Eastern countries have bound themselves to their indigenous cultures and don't untie is musical cultures in their countries."

what

"At the heart of all Eastern music is the tuning issue, the prime fodder in their music."

What tuning issue bru? Tuning is only an issue with Tonal Music and fixed tuning instruments, the chromatic temperament is the patchwork solution the west came up to solve it's tuning issue. And why are you generalizing ALL EASTERN MUSIC? Can you even tell the difference between Persian Oud music and Egyptian Oud music?

"but musicians in those countries do not have strong mathematical reasons for their tunings"

Same way most western musicians don't even know what a cent is or what constitutes a so called "perfect interval". The fact that a musician can't explain a scale or a tuning doesn't mean it doesn't have an inner organization or reason to be.

"and when they want to explain their music, they use the principles of Western music and compare"

Of course, west rules the world, westerns wouldn't understand shit without its own terminology involved. You can't even differentiate between two microtones between C and D and you think you're well informed enough to, idk, understand classical indian music theory literature without baby steps and tons of western comparisons?

"In other words:
Micto-Tone doesn't allow people to look for mathematical formulas, and whenever they run into a problem, they take refuge in Micro-Tone and falsely pretend to have solved the Tuning problem. Micro-Tone is not the definitive answer."

What problem? There's no problem my dude, Classical Indian Music, for instance, has been fucking around with 24-tone scales even before Palestrina was a baby. Again, what tuning problem?

You're tripping balls. Instead of assuming things and cherry picking online information to fit your perspective (whatever it is), why don't you start googling about other culture's music theories? It's a much bigger and diverse subject than what our western boring minds can fathom.

 

That's like saying "language is constant but culture changes over time". In other words, it's super retarded.

 

Let go of the past. Whatever the past is, it's past. Let's look at the present.

In eastern music, which instruments or music use mathematical principles in their tunings? I want to know the name of that instrument or that country.

 

Lol, let go of the past, ..

Tacking again I see.

You think tuning and theory were invented recently, all this stuff is basically at least 2000 years old and hasn't really changed that much.

Any instrument with frets such as the Chinese pipa used 12 Lyu tuning or the Turcik baglama/bouzouki Aziri Saz perfect 4th, the Hindustani Sitar also gaped by 4ths but with 1/2t or 1/4t depending on player pref on a 24 tone scale. Also the grand-daddy of them all the Setar tuned in 5th.

You can't build a fretted or any keyed instrument (that includes harps, reeds and winds) to be played in a group orchestral setting without some form of theory about what notes are without it ending up sounding like cats rutting.

I am not going to waste time explaining that or with math as you haven't proven you are capable of understanding it and I am not wasting my time typing up explanations for no reason.

/ END OF LINE

 

If @Marseilles put in as much effort writing his beloved clever music as he does posing clever questions, this world would be a better place.

 

In my opinion, tunings in Eastern music have nothing to do with physics and acoustics, and their notes have been chosen arbitrarily in the past and have been passed down to subsequent generations.

Microtonality is also created only to justify Eastern music that doesn't fit into any mathematical formula.

It's true that there are other uses of microtonality now, but this modern use of microtonality in western countries has nothing to do with arbitrary Eastern tunings.

 

Depends what scale you are playing in.

 

That's is fine, you can believe what you want to believe.

You opinion is not based on facts or math for that matter as micro-tonality exist in the standard 12 tone tempered scale in order to facilitate transposition. Eb and D# are not actually the same note as @BaSsDuDe has already stated, they are a compromise so that transposition rules can work.

Stuttgart pitch A4=440Hz is also a compromise as 432Hz is the correct fundamental if you consider speed of sound in air.

What you consider an arbitrary deviation for the sake of esthetics is actually a more mathematically correct approach to transposition and transit on a scale depending on the direction one is going through the scale.

All this talk about maths and you've just proven that you can't count without using your fingers and toes.

There is no longer any value in this discussion as you've proven that you do not have the background or the basic fundamental skills required to understand even a simple answer.

This is actually a consequence of 12T equal temperament, they are not the same note but we treat them as such because with the introduction of the piano forte and the rise of clavier based instruments something had to be done to make transposition possible. It's not a bad solution and and it simplifies a lot of the complexities and competing schools in the building of musical instruments and their cost.

 

I call it multiples of 19.445 hz

 

Don't feed the troll man. He's probably the same guy who popped up a few months ago asking retarded questions about microtonal Mozart or something lol

 

Yeah it's probably Foster again...
Smells like it.
New account too.

 

Very interesting, people with no information about tuning accuse me of trolling. It's really amazing.

Of course, except 23322332 that I have a lot of respect for him.

 

Seeing your disrespect of logic probably means your respect for 23322332 isn't much to mention.

 

What logic? A logic that is not based on any reason...

 

I never managed to understand why is Foster trolling. Years ago he was simply uneducated, but I guess by now he should know way more simply because he read the threads he created or participated in over the years.

About arbitrariness in music - it is possible 30-50k years ago this to be true to some extend, but even then people had some aesthetical criteria. And there is nothing accidental in the world, imo - you can find abstractions everywhere to the point you have to visit a mental institution, if you start getting everything that your mind registers too seriously. Your subconscious brain is also doing non-stop complex math for even simplest tasks like walking, recognizing what you are seeing etc.
Btw, here is a nice experiment - take a recording of a bird song, slow it down and import it in something like Melodyne. I think you will be amazed by the melodic complexity (and microtonality, wow) of bird song. And they didn't learn any math or tuning, or music theory at school.

 

"In my opinion, tunings in Eastern music have nothing to do with physics and acoustics, and their notes have been chosen arbitrarily in the past and have been passed down to subsequent generations.

Microtonality is also created only to justify Eastern music that doesn't fit into any mathematical formula.

It's true that there are other uses of microtonality now, but this modern use of microtonality in western countries has nothing to do with arbitrary Eastern tunings."



Ok, are they trolling or something? Holy crap man, read a book, use google, whatever. Do you need reference literature for starters? I know a little bit about Classical Indian Music, Maqams and Japanese Honkyoku and Sankyoku.

 

I believe he simply trolls for company.

I tried your suggestion and it said i should urinate on every cat I see? I guess the birds where i live are fowl...

 

I was speaking enharmonically, not in scales, as in note equivalent/tuning and why they came about which had nothing to do with scales on uneven instruments, not even-tempered, which is the topic and the question being about any science associated to it.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2021

Or better yet, take some drugs and go to the woods before dawn. Holy macaroni.

 

It does feel like you are trolling because loads of people have suggested that if you really want the answer to your thread topic, to research it yourself and how as well as where. Indian Ragas both North and South which are slightly different have westerners doing the mathematic breakdowns. Look it up. If you do not, I am confident someone is going to report you for trolling considering how many people have suggested you look it up and you continue like they may as well have said nothing.