Which one? Levels?

Great comment btw.

 

Yes.

 

A good melody isn´t possible without harmonization, ja ja ja. The Bach suites for Cello solo or the Sonatas and Partitas for Solo Violin simply don´t exist.

 

Please, read it again, carefully:

IMPLIED.

Have you heard about the tonic in music? About the departure from tonic and the return (or the failure to return) to it in melodies? Are there fundamental tones and passing tones in musical passages? How passing tones and fundamental tones are related to strong pulses? Is it impossible to analize most of melodies from the point of view of harmonic functions? How do arpeggios participate in establishing harmonic functions?

Bach suites are pure melodies? Really? Are there no two or more voices played simultaneosly from time to time? Please, relisten to them.

 

When I'm writing, the last thing I'm thinking of is theory.
I'm chasing groove, feeling out vibes, experimenting and letting melody flow.

I'm not saying to ignore theory or that theory isn't useful, but you might want to just experiment and ignore any theory or rules in the initial song writing and see where the music takes you. The more you do this, the better you get at being able to take what's in your head and translate it to your instrument.

Just remember - there are NO rules with art. Theory is just that, theory.

 

Very good advice, I saw an interview where a big producer actually said that they wished they never learnt theory and all of the rules.

 

"Learn the changes, then forget them." -- Charlie Parker

 

I can see how it gets in the way with some people. I also think a lot of it depends on what personality type they are. I'd say if they are extremely analytical, they'd probably gravitate to more theory. I'm not, so I find it just gets in my way when trying to let creativity flow. I end up being to tightly confined to a certain set of scales for example. I try to empty my headspace out when I'm writing and just start jamming. I'm not thinking scales, chords, modes etc. Even if I gravitate towards a mode, I'm not glued to it as in being locked in a box. I don't care if I'm playing "wrong" notes so to speak fro ma theory standpoint. I've come up with killer riffs by just messing around jamming off the cuff and not caring if I'm shifting and mixing modes and scales. It doesn't matter to me at all. It's all about the vibe.

I use theory later on though after most of the arrangement is to where I'm happy with it. I'll start working with "some" theory when I'm looking to layer things in, build out harmony, add more color etc. For initial writing though, theory goes out the window. I don't want to be thinking about it.

Discussions like this remind me of a quote from Eddie Van Halen.
"It's guitar theory, not guitar fact"
From:
Eddie had the same riff hoarding problem as a lot of us.

And speaking of Eddie, here's why he said it. lol

 

This is good advice, too. I've done this a lot by forcing myself to use a limited collection of notes to build out riffs and melodies. When you limit yourself like this, it really forces you to come up with creative expression.

Here is a perfect example of what I mean by this. I encourage everyone to experiment with this. Even though this particular video is geared to guitar, it doesn't matter what instrument you are using. This is short, easy and I guarantee it will help you write.

Try to limit yourself to a group of notes and see what you can come up with. THEN expand on it later. Remember though - sometimes (often times) it's the simplest things that turn out great. The catch is, sometimes (often times) it's difficult keeping it simple. We want to keep building and we get in our own way.

 

Ok, this doesn't help with the theory side or coming up with killer melodies, but when comparing oneself to big name productions it's important not to get disheartened, as they're chock full of little treatments.

Some things to look out for, and try for yourself are small things like: delay on a single note or a small phrase (with vocals it's usually just a word or two). This is subtle but very effective sometimes. And it's used all over the shop. Also small things like boosting the level on a melody line when restating it later on by a small amount. Not to mention creative use of velocity, making the "important" notes (whatever they might be) just a little bit louder. And so on.

 

This question is really difficult if not impossible to answer. Almost everyone has a different approach to making music - cultural background, musical education (or the lack of it), different instruments people play.. and thousands of other things all being factors.

I would agree with this at least to some point. But there is a difference between:
harmony - it is (usually) there, part of the game, whether you like it or not. It's just a given fact
theory - it's an attempt to explain a certain phenomena. By itself, theory isn't much..
rules - well, I have a problem with that. Rules and Art.. it's (almost) an oxymoron

Even if you want to produce pop, my advice would be to listen to other genres too. Treat a super-trained classical musician the same way as a street one. Listen to folk music from around the world. Pick up the pieces that you like, store them in your head. Your brain will eventually mix and match and come up with something unique..

And here is where some knowledge of the jargon around harmony, counterpoint, music form etc comes handy. You have to understand, what are you listening to. You should be able to understand what others are telling you and communicate your ideas.

I listened to the songs you posted. Many of them are just "four chord songs" (nothing wrong with that), but Calvin Harris - Summer has something interesting going on. I will give you a concrete example of how I go about it, how I try to understand what "tricks" is he using. Now let me fire up my piano and record something - well, I said it - a concrete example..;)

 

Ok, let's go:
Calvin Harris - Summer, trick No.1 (harmony)

After the wahwah guitar sound it all starts with thirds. They are arranged in a certain way..
But before that, let's have a look at the harmonic structure of the song. The (cyclic) chord progression goes:
C – Em – D – Am – G/B* – C or:
C – Em – D – Am – Bm – C
*This is per Wikipedia. It kind of works. But it can also be that Calvin is using B minor instead and that was by my instinct too. For now the important thing is to acknowledge the bassline that certainly goes C-E-D-A-B-C (notes). Check the @Ad Heesive 's explanation below.
**The G/B is not how I'd usually write it down, but to keep it simple - it means that the G chord is played "over" the B, which should be the lowest note, like the bass.

What you should be able to find out is the key in which the piece is written. Calvin is finishing his cycle on C all the time, but the song is in the key of G major.

In the scale of G major, G is the first degree (I), the Tonic. C and D are respectively fourth and fifth degree, IV - Subdominant, V - Dominant. If you play IV-V-I (Subdominant, Dominant, Tonic) in that order there is a strong feeling of "resolution", of "coming home".

Since in the song "Summer" Calvin is, as I said, always ending his progression on C. We can add the D and play the G to test the "theory" above. Here is twice the original and then (C)-D-G, IV-V-I:



It should feel like coming home.

So, what is the point of all this, where is the "trick"?

Being at home is fine.. but people want to get on a trip, on vacation. Also, coming home feels like reaching the end and that is not what you want in the middle of a music piece.

Calvin avoids the chords that would immediately imply the key of G for the listener and he especially avoids ending his chord progression on the Tonic. Ofc the average listener knows nothing about this "theory" behind, but they can feel it. When the chord progression cycles we end on the C (IV, Subdominant) ..and we are like OK, that's fine, but we are not home, right? So where do we go next? And then he repeats it. This creates a sort of uplifting, "never-ending" feeling.. instead of banging on the I-Tonic (G) all the time.

In fact he never gets home. It's more like "You can check-out any time you like, but you can never leave".. Makes any sense? ;)

 

Last edited: Aug 11, 2021

I agree that music theory isn't absolutely important for creating a good melody. So I want to make my thought more exact. First, experimentaton, taste, instinct etc., etc. Without some sort of inspiration or hard work it's not possible. You can create good melodies using your ears and taste only. If you have to say something you'll find a way. Theoretical notions and constructs sometimes confuse in this regard or are even useless. So, it would be stupid to rely on thoretical recipes only. But it's hard to imagine a good melody in pop music without a good harmonisation (that can be made "blindly" indeed). I would not say that a good simple melody is not acheivable but harmonisation is a very important mechanism and good assistance. The best way is trying to adopt it, to find a place for it in your musical activity. In the long run knowing music theory is better orientation. No need to invent a wheel.

 

Nice - that's a useful breakdown.
Not sure why you want to use a G/B though? Yes the bass is B, but I hear a distinct F# in the harmony (more than I hear G)
so why not just have a B minor chord there instead of G/B
Admittedly you could just say its all Gmaj7 [G B D F#]
Then choose either part - the lower triad G major or the upper triad B minor
but my ear wants that F#, so with a B bass, I'd prefer B minor.
Cheers

 

I have a very simple answer: because when I checked - Wikipedia says so (and they are wrong 90% of the times)

For the books - when I analyzed it and IMO IT IS B minor

Wasn't important for what I wanted to say, didn't want to make a fuss.. Wiki is like - if you repeat something enough times, you know...

@Ad Heesive, please check my sht.. by all means.. have to catch some sleep. I'll have another look at that later