that has nothing to do with today
today is advertising consume and glorifying money over everything
yesterday was help yourself eg cause the hottest jacket could be selfmade

gestern rappte fler in dem maxim lied geld ist nicht wichtig heute macht der das $$$$$ mode opfer welches sein selbbewusstsein darueber bestaetigt ,ganz arm

 

Not true. In the 80s, for example, the "Thriller jacket" was the hottest shit in the US. Everyone wanted one and had to put a big wad of cash on the table to get a reasonably good imitation. Same with Air Force 1 and Jordans. And in Germany in the 2000s with Cordon Bronx and Cordon Victoria. WU Wear? Etc etc etc. I can't remember anyone who sat at a sewing machine at home and sewed the stuff together themselves. And you know what? All these hypes were induced by musicians and athletes. And money & expensive cars was glorified then, too. You can also find current music today that is not about money, etc etc. Ever since Hip Hop grew out of the block parties and elitist backpack events and reached a larger audience through labels and brand contracts, it's been the same as it is today. And that was already the case in the mid/late 80s in the US and early/mid 2000s in Germany. The music business is a business - it's about you buying this shit. The only thing that has changed is the scale and the shift from selling physical records to streaming. Everything else is a romanticization of something that never happened in this way, sry.

 

Responding to the OP:

Utter bullshit.

Tell Beethoven or Mozart or Stevie Wonder to just "freestyle" everything, all the time. Yeah, right.

All we'd end up with is a lot of half-assed musical thoughts limited by the spontaneous imagination of people working off the top of their heads. Personally, I don't really like the instinctive thoughts of most people. Put some thought and effort into it, instead!

The point of composing—instead of just riffing—is to put some educated thought into it and come up with something that transcends the human mind and heart and soul. Because it's music, it's heard back and experienced in real-time... so when more than real-time thought has gone into the design of melodies, words and thoughts behind it, it's mind-blowing to experience in real-time when it's done well. Again, see the masters above, as well as many, many more people who actually know how to compose music thoughtfully. Dave East ain't Stevie Wonder.

It's the weak bit of most jazz for me, as well. Occasionally, it's fucking brilliant in the right hands... but by far most of the time it's lame fragments of mediocre little ideas strung together improvisationally into little shitty compositions on the fly. It's cool and all; but it doesn't rival well-thought out compositions, by and large.

A synthesis of both improvisation and structural composition probably yields the greatest supply of interesting, exciting and thought-provoking music, IMO. In other words, we like somebody who can freestyle over something—be it a rap or a guitar solo—but it's much better when there's a decent fucking song under the hood to begin with.

And if your brain and attention span can't even sit though and absorb what I'm saying, there's your problem.

 

Intelligent text and a bit of rapping in between.

Killing Joke - Stay One Jump Ahead (2007)

Lyrics: https://genius.com/Killing-joke-stay-one-jump-ahead-lyrics

 

Most of the bigger "street" rappers cater to an audience that wants the rawest emotions and stories possible. In Dave East's mind, the perfect scenario for writing a song is - Something crazy happens- he goes to the studio and raps about it. For these people the quicker you're able to come up with lyrics the more raw and real the experience/ topic is. A rapper like Drake sits down and writes raps but also collaborates with people over time to help perfect the song over the course of months. 21 Savage, The migos, Meek Mill etc finish the track in 30 minutes.

 

TRUE but today its on another level
goes way deeper

 

you dont get it at all
is shimmy shimmy ya a written text _ yes
is odb a good freestyler _ yes

thread is so ignorant and kno nothing bout
and its not even a complex thing

minute 2:03

BUT that you people compare this to classical songwriting and classical music says all

 

Last edited: Jul 2, 2021

@Howard Carpendale this is your response? Seriously? Is that it? I'm supposed to be convinced that this is somehow on the same level as my references... and you are supporting the Dave East quote with this?

My point is: the most profound and noble thoughts worth expressing artistically don't always come in a flash. And if you REQUIRE that as a point of admission, you're gonna regularly leave a good portion (or majority) of the best material on the table.

 

Not really. I think you just focus too much on the garbage instead of admiring the diamonds. There is so much incredibly good rap music all over the globe.... From the US to Japan to Russia, from the UK to Africa to Australia. Music that is so honest, lyrically to the point, musically and qualitatively composed and emotionally realized that the voice in my head, which usually always has to analyze everything, goes quiet and I get goosebumps listening to the music. If "Rap am Mittwoch" is your answer to good, technically demanding freestyle battles, if Olexesh, Nimo and Fler - no matter at what stage of their career - are your benchmark for high-quality, emotionally stirring and meaningful rap music, then it's not hip-hop, it's your choice. Apparently your choice is different from mine, because 80% of the rap music I listen to is not about money, consumption, sluts, or expensive sports cars, but for the most part about heart, soul, mind, spirit, life and society.... big picture stuff... well, and funny rhymes about long dicks - nobody is perfect.

 

Last edited: Jul 3, 2021

real rappers use calculaters.
come on man!

 

And how do we prove that Dave East is actually freestyling and not rapping pre-written, previously memorized lines prepared in advance?

 

stuff i hear and that often means not that i hear any ohthr stuff off that artist

SAFTBOYS x SHACKE ONE - N.W.A (PROD. KEVDUNKIN)only the shake part
SSIO - Ich fibicke jeden _ Halb Mensch, halb Nase (prod. von Reaf)
only from 3:05

 

 

Last edited: Jul 3, 2021

I listened to your entire playlist (you had already posted some of these songs on another thread), I give you my feedback:

Most of the German songs sound quite ordinary, nothing that catches my attention, some are the usual old school boombap with the sample looped in 4/4, some others are modern-fashonist trap, following patterns dictated by the mainstream hiphop... well ok. Unfortunately I don't speak the language and I can't understand the lyrics. The song DISSY - angst gave me hope, but then I dug up the artist's discography: it's always the same trap soup
Lifers group is true old school, I didn't know them, but it is from the 90's and it doesn't tell me anything that I didn't already know
Method Man, Nas etc, on the other hand, is recent: it looks like a Buenavista Social Club of hiphop.
The last one, “Shogun” is pathetic
the LXST CXNTURY | PHONK MIX # 2 has an interesting vibe, I finally found something that I can hear in the car, thanks

 

OK, I listened to all the songs. I'm only going to talk about the German songs. In fact, I would call only two of them good (not necessarily the songs but at least the artists): Nate57 and SSIO. I'll go into more detail about why I see it that way, but I'd like to talk about what I think of the others first. So, one after the other:

Olexesh: I never understood the hype around this guy. I think he's pretty average. He hits the beat and he's authentic. But that's about it. No skillz in lyricism, no weighty statements, no technical specialties... But maybe I missed something?
Karate Andi: Technically adept at battle rap punch-lines formulated as antisocially as possible. Special feature: He sounds like a door that could use some oil. That's it. He seems to have absolutely nothing interesting to say about anything except that he is anti-social. On a battle rap stage certainly interesting for a few rounds, but on recordings?
Fler: Phrase monger. I summarize the content of the linked song in a half sentence: Interchangeable half-sentences about long-term memory.
Taktikka: Didn't know him before. First impression: Uninteresting and average. Can be found in any medium-sized city. Had to dig for a few more songs to see if this impression solidifies. After a few pseudo-deep tracks and represent-blah-blah, yes, my impression has not changed.
Mosenu: Didn't impress me in particular, but the bars were stable. Classic neckbreaker with high punchline density. This song reminded me of early tracks from MoTrip. Maybe a little spot of light in the dark? After listening to a few more songs, disillusionment quickly spreads. Just another average joe.
Der Lange: ... ...
Myng: ... ...
Dissy: Average. I find the punk rock influence in this track interesting, but that's about it.
MC Bogy: To be honest, I don't know what to say or think about Bogy. He can neither write nor rap well. His tracks consist of the dullest platitudes. He has massive mental problems and I really feel sorry for him. At the same time, I have the utmost respect for his incredible stamina to fight for his dream and his unwavering loyalty to hip-hop and the Berlin scene culture.

Nate57:
Aside from some guest contributions and mixtapes, I think this guy's output is pretty impressive. He has a clear sonic connection to his background on his albums, starting with the instrumentals. If you've ever been in this hood away from the late-night parties on the sex mile, you know what kind of music comes out of pretty much every apartment and basement during the day: 90s and 2000s boom bap and g-funk. Nate mixes that with typical St. Pauli sounds and references like shanty, accordions, harbor noises, violence and high police activity. Rap-wise, he also follows his musical influences and lyrically, he is just great. Whether it's deep, representational, party songs or whatever, Nate's lyrics tell evocative stories with meaning and follow a common thread without sounding contrived in any way. You can play his albums and drink n party to them, but you can also sit back, close your eyes and immerse yourself for an hour in an atmospherically dense society drama in your head, with the feeling of having seen the world through someone else's eyes.

SSIO:
What to say here. Technically absolutely solid and pretty much the funniest guy I've ever heard. SSIO takes rap technically dead serious but doesn't even try to say anything serious and just takes the piss out of everything and everyone. Every sentence, every song, every video, even his whole image is one big joke. If both of the latter rappers were movies, Nate57 would be Boyz n the Hood and SSIO would be Friday. Well, or maybe Bugs Bunny would be more appropriate.


Summary:
Don't get me wrong, with 1 exception (Myng), none of this is bad, I just find most of it completely unnecessary and boring. It doesn't even have to be underground. I don't mind if it's mainstream - as long as it's good! Example: Even if I don't like the flat simplicity of Bushido or Azad, and in the case of Azad I don't even like the whole Frakfurt rap style, I recognize the skill in using this stylistic device. It's intentionally simple. It can go as far as complete extraction, as in the case of "Deichkind - Dinge" - which is lyrically fantastic:

It can be musically completely simple and classical. As long as it is lyrically stylish and elegant, I can love it.

It can be one of the most hackneyed themes in hip hop. If it's lyrically stunning, I'm in.

Because I wonder, if someone as a rapper really has nothing to say except that they're dangerous and the best player in the game, why are you rapping at all? If you have nothing to say that could be interesting for posterity, why are you recording? What's the point?

 

Last edited: Jul 5, 2021

Taktikka

Code:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxTw0ND_50w

--

hatte den hochhaus deutschrusse-kanack vibe oder auch so was

---
Karate Andi

for an anti social world...tut einfach gut wenn mal zu lang unterm mainstream dummvolk mein haus mein boot leuten war
ich find derzerlegt den beat fabelhaft auch wenn andere vlt technisch besser waeren ich mag das gesamt packet hier..sein name is total no go er is nicht og andi
----

he really thinks he is sort of top inovator und weiter entwickler ...er reitet immer auf 90 ies erst silben reim rum und findet sich so cool das er endsilben reims macht aber im endeffect kopiert er nur von drüben aber der track gefaellt mir trotzdem
--

der track is ein hymne damals wieheute

versteht nich jeder...is fuer kaputte...

i agree but the track posted is a nice one imo

 

I edited my post. read the summary.

Never heard of it. Dortmund doesn't exist.

Trust me, I get it. But this broken B-movie (c)rap can also be done well, if you have the appropriate skills... which is not the case here

 

You are my hero!
I would also add to the list all those musicians who play while making unconventional facial gestures, believing that they are playing the masterpiece of the century

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 6, 2021

i never liked eminem BTW
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recycle
post a track you like pls
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hamburg

--
achen

 

Last edited: Jul 6, 2021

All the hiphop I like belongs to the last century, then nothing more (posting a 90's link from De La Soul or Wu-Tang doesn't make much sense today). I argue that from about 2000 onwards, the creativity and underground vibe in hiphop has completely disappeared.
I feel a little betrayed by this but in the end it is just the normal flow of things, the world evolves and so does music and art in general.
I believe that creativity has taken other paths: hiphop is a walking dead