Maybe this should go in working with sound forum.

There are few natural instruments where harmonics are minimal, usually harmonics series happen naturally but not in synths.

A sine wave can be completely out of harmonics in the digital media.

So this is my question is, are there other kind of harmonics?
The case of what I am looking is rather rare and not intuitive, but I think could be possible.

The natural harmonics or overtones happen when the vibration subdivides in 2, 3 ,4 or any number of the positive natural numbers while each time more subtle

But are there other kind of harmonics using other series?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_series_(music)

I think there is a possibility of other harmonic series, for examples sound transmitted over different liquids, or natural harmonics vs dopler effect while accelerating the source of sound (I know it's a extreme case lol) but I am looking for possibilities. Or if there is any study about.

I tried to find on internet but by artificial or synthetic harmonics or it's about guitar techniques (I know about) or it's about chemistry.

Many synthesizers actually create harmonics but also with a detune quality so can be harmonic series or any kind of series.

as example the harmonic series can be obtained multiplying by x natural number, but other series of non natural harmonics could be produced while simulating the harmonic qualities in decibel but not in pith.

I don't know if it's clear or easy to understand my question.

 

There are plenty of resonators that can be tuned to various harmonics/resonances (for instance "stretch tunings") if I'm reading you right.

If you've Reaktor, that has a nice tutorial on creating your own additive synth with creative tunings, or using a resonator with the same.

One thing to note is that acoustic instruments have plenty of resonances that are not tied to the harmonic series, for instance on an acoustic guitar the body will have it's own resonances that give each guitar it's own particular sound.

 

Plenty of resonances? In my understanding there is one or two depending on the shape, everything have resonance but the effect only happens when the frequency is match, and it's a pretty undesirable effect as increase the amplitude of the wave producing saturation, it's best when there is no resonance

 

Thank you for this, this is exactly what I thought could exist, in fact there are spherical harmonics, a recent discovery talk about these as it's very related to quatum particles behavior. I didn't get into as maths were overly complex...
BTW do you know the formula to calculate the frequency of these percussion harmonics?

 

Check this book and the references in it, if you have academic library access.

The Physics of Musical Instruments 2nd Edition
by Neville H. Fletcher (Author), Thomas D. Rossing

 

I have only two experiences I can recall. There may have been some earlier but I would not have recognised what they were very early on.
The first was with a singer in the studio doing a recording on a fully analogue system. She went into head voice and the note was so perfectly in tune with itself you could hear the harmonic. While that is not a perfect example the next was with myself with only one recollection under a similar note/pitch circumstance. On a bass, hitting a bass note and simultaneously playing harmonics do not always guarantee they will be perfectly in tune. In this case I hit a low G and played the harmonics on the low A and D (5th fret). You could hear an E on the A harmonic and an A with the D harmonic. I put it down to a series of conditions being met - The instrument notes selected have to be perfectly in tune with each other and the attack, pressure, volume and timing have to be identical. I have never been able to repeat it. Occasionally a note here and a note there. That is the only reason I can think of why I cannot repeat that randomness.

EDIT - That said, if you play the difficult to play harmonics on the 2nd fret on a bass in a cluster, you will consistently hear microtonal harmonics because they are naturally not in tune in that position.

 

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I listened something similar but related to resonance, making a sounds louder and constant and all the strings will start to vibrate, then stop all the sounds except one string, I didn't calculate that but strings could vibrate with many harmonics and maybe non harmonics at the same time.

I think that is why harps and Asian harps alike as so enigmatic as many pitches that are not used because TET12 could happen naturally.

I think the fret 2 is around the seventh harmonic with a sound of the Tonic * 7 as reference in 440Hz that harmonic vibrates at 770Hz, actually the exact seventh harmonic of A2 110Hz, must be that one as it's the only one that sound wolf in TET 12, the next one is 3 octaves (8) higher, then a perfect second(9) and a perfect third(10)

 

I'm not sure this is what you're looking for, but La Monte Young's Well Tuned Piano has tons of otherworldly overtones from the non-TET12 harmonics.

 

Thank you @GabsIT - now we're getting ahead: Natural musical instruments produce ample overtones. The full timbres of gongs, singing bowls, didgeridoos and many other instruments from all over the world are evidence of this.

The overtone reoche - the scale of nature - definition
The overtone series is the chord of partials that vibrate simultaneously when a natural note is sounded. The overtone series is the basis of all tone systems because it is the only natural scale. As soon as a note sounds, overtones resonate with it. They all sound at the same time. So the overtone series is actually a chord. The structure is always the same and corresponds to a mathematical harmonic series, hence the name series. You don't usually hear the overtones. Because they all vibrate as a chord at the same time, they appear to us like a single note. The term overtone series means the harmonic partials (for the difference between overtones, partial tones and harmonics, see below). There are also sounds with inharmonic overtones. The more inharmonic overtones a sound contains, the more noisy it becomes. https://www.oberton.org/obertongesang/die-obertonreihe/

Andreas Vollenweider - LIVE@HOME Mini Concert 9

 

BTW another thing That I observed looking at a spectrogram while trying to make a pure tone (singing) and then a metallic one.

At a pure tone I can observe all the harmonics correctly, but then when doing a metallic sound I can observe an additional set of harmonics starting from the exactly fifth of the tonic sound.

I was thinking that I could managed to make variation of the harmonics as when doing vowels formants (this only affect primarily the loudness of higher harmonics) but wasn't the case, I think that metallic sound is because I can manage to make a different vibration in the other side of my vocal chords, so that is why a new set of harmonics appears while making those particular metallic sounds.

 

Saruul is a Mongolian throat singer. Mongol Khoomii (throat singing) is a vocal art imitating sounds from nature. Saruul demonstrates some techniques of Mongolian throat singing, which is able to imitate mountains, steppes, water, wind and animals. We can hear for example a dog or a yak.

 

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No that it seems TET 24 or TET 48 using 2 or 4 pianos, I think there is at least one composer doing a lot of music in that way, not certainly what I am looking, I am probably wrong but that definitively is not TET12, I don't have perfect pitch but I can recognize the other intervals.

 

non linear harmonics of percussion instruments as suggested by 23322332, this is incredibly connected to quantum physics

 

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Aionigma: AIONIGMA (Overtone Singing, Tampura, Sruti Box, Monochord)

 

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Some Harmonics emerge very Easily,
like the regular "natural harmonics" on a string..

While some other are harder to obtain/generate.

In some circumstances, some could even be physically impossible to obtain,
like sub-harmonics..

But it always depends on the Physical Properties and Dimensions of the object,
the frequency of the vibration, the amount of Energy applied, and why not of the Medium where they occur..

In any case, I'd say all the Harmonics that Exist will Always be Natural,
regardless if they emerge easily/naturally, or need to be artificially pushed/generated..

Because if they Exist they are part of the physical nature of the Universe..

So Philosophically speaking,
I think all harmonics Must be Natural..


-And I guess it's also interesting to consider the Medium..

I guess Underwater things will be different,
some harmonics could be Isolated, or even Enhanced,
while Most other harmonics will be Subdued..

Water is a highly dampening substance, and given its Density,
it will tend to hinder the vibrations of any object, rather than increase/enhance them..

I guess it could be argued that the best medium for vibrations is the Vacuum of space..
Ofc you wouldn't hear a thing, but the objects will vibrate completely Free of any Resistance,
so that might theoretically be the best scenario.. idk


-Besides, also consider that,
one thing is the Harmonics that we as Humans can Hear/Perceive with out limited capabilities.

Another thing is the full spectrum of reality,
where harmonics will exist or be generated much beyond our hearing capacity..

I'm sure any proper Bat will probably agree with me..

And also this sort of ultrasonic acoustic/harmonic evaluation is frequently used in Engineering,
where for instance car manufacturers will record and evaluate/"listen" to the vibrations of an Engine,
and try to detect unusual or unwanted vibrations/resonances that could represent a physical weakness or technical deviation..

And this happens at frequencies much beyond our hearing capacity.

 

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@GabsIT
Here is a resource courtesy of a poster on talkbass that maps the harmonics on the bass.
also another chart with board mappings, notes and frequencies
It's not a bad resource. Link to the creators or borrowers underneath the images. Clicking enlarges each image The harmonics increase per fret the closer you get to the nut and the more difficult they are to execute. There are 4x sets of harmonics on the 2nd fret alone (4 on each string in one fret).


https://www.talkbass.com/threads/tapped-harmonics-map.792202/



https://www.talkbass.com/threads/fingerboard-map-tones-and-harmonics.1368601/


I can also safely say there is a C that sits in a tight space on the G string that can be triggered on the 2nd fret that is very difficult to execute cleanly and must be plucked at the edge of the bridge. It is, however, not equal-tempered. There is also an Eb. Some think it's an E but it is microtonally on the closer side to Eb.

there used to be a great Adobe flash version laying out everything but Flash has become unsupported sadly.

 

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It's not TET12, I said that in my post The wikipedia article goes into the details https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Well-Tuned_Piano#Music

 

...and this all probably generated from one's desire to play Portrait of Tracy

 

Which I first transcribed in 1978
No it came about because Jaco opened up the potential for a whole new realm of chord tone possibilities. If you know the fretboard intimately and all of the harmonics, even on a 4-string bass there is no chord you cannot insinuate in 4-note form. These days there are some guys like Steve Bailey playing 6-string who have pushed the harmonics even further. There is a Spanish guy Christian Galvez who is incredible. He truly plays it as a bass guitar, not as an electric bass. if you search him on youtube you can find him doing some interesting harmonic improvisations in context with what is around him.

here he is with John.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2021