Hey folks,

what I would like to do is to trigger different VST parameters with the different euclidean patterns (like if I used a sequencer). There are good options for M4L (euclidean sequencer) and Reaktor (Euclidean Polyplexor v2.0). Both generate MIDI information in terms of Note pitch, timing and velocity. For this I probably need only timing and velocity, the different Note pitches determain the different patterns, so maybe there could be a workaround to let Ableton think that whatever Velocity and Timing information comes out of Pitch "x" gets a separate mapping function?

The M4L device doesn't have a build in mapping feature unfortunately.

Appreciate any help!

 

Hey thuglife69, maybe that will help you a little.

XronoMorph: Loop generator (Freeware)
www.dynamictonality.com/xronomorph.htm

XronoMorph is a free macOS and Windows app for creating multilayered rhythmic and melodic loops (hockets). Each rhythmic layer is visualized as a polygon inscribed in a circle, and each polygon can be constructed according to two different mathematical principles: perfect balance and well-formedness (aka MOS). These principles generalize polyrhythms, additive, and Euclidean rhythms. Furthermore, rhythms can be smoothly morphed between, and irrational rhythms with no regular pulse can also be easily constructed.

Spoiler: AlgoMusic and Boris Synth Lab presents: Atomic VSTi (Sequencer tool)

AlgoMusic and Boris Synth Lab presents: Atomic VSTi (Sequencer tool)

Atomic is a 16 step sequencer composing tool with a built in synth that also has the ability to control other softsynths or even hardware via it's MIDI out function. The design is circular which allows a different approach to composing and sound design Inspired by circular step sequencers such as the Buchla Arbitrary Function Generator and Future Retro Revolution. Dedicated to Electronic Music pioneer Allen Strange (1943-2008).

Composing with Atomic
Atomic and other step sequencers are considered as composer tools. The user inputs their own notes for use in a composition or as a background when playing live.. Here are some tips on how to compose your own sequences using Atomic.

RealTime composing.
This is perhaps the best way, as it allows you to hear the results as you are entering the notes.
1. Select only 3 steps, and set the rate to a slower space, so you can hear each note as it progresses.
2. Have the first step start at '0' position, as you can always change keys by selecting another key note on your midi keyboard.
3. While the sequencer is running, move the knobs for step 2 and 3 until you get a pleasing result to your own ears.
4. Select the next step, and tune the note in the same way. Continue adding and tuning each note in this way until you have as many notes as you need. Of course, you can go all the way to 16 steps, but sometimes even 4 or 8 steps will do it! To make this easier, you could also use a MIDI knob box (such as the M-Audio UC-33 or another type of knob box) and starting on Cc16, and upwards for each step, you can use real knobs to tune it as the sequencer is running. This is perhaps the most fun way to do it, as it will feel like 'real' hardware.

Another method which especially works well with a knob box is to select all 16 steps, and then mute all steps so they are off (Click into the steps corresponding LED so it turns red. See sequencer section) Start the sequencer and then start turning knobs so they come on and tune it intuitively. Another fun realtime composing method is select only 4 to 6 steps, and have them running. Then, turn the seminote knobs constantly to change the sequence as it is running, while also recording the movements in your sequencer, or capturing the audio as it is
playing.

StepTime composing
This is a technique in which you set the notes without actually running the sequencer until you are through completing your sequence. For this to work, you need to 'translate' semi notes' to actual notes. Here is a translation table:

Semitone Translation Table
-24 C1 1 C#3
-23 C#1 2 D3
-22 D1 3 D#3
-21 D#1 4 E3
-20 E1 5 F3
-19 F1 6 F#3
-18 F#1 7 G3
-17 G1 8 G#3
-16 G#1 9 A3
-15 A1 10 A#3
-14 A#1 11 B3
-13 B1 12 C4
-12 C2 13 C#4
-11 C#2 14 D4
-10 D2 15 D#4
-9 D#2 16 E4
-8 E2 17 F4
-7 F2 18 F#4
-6 F#2 19 G4
-5 G2 20 G#4
-4 G#2 21 A4
-3 A2 22 A#4
-2 A#2 23 B4
-1 B2 24 C5
0 C3

You can enter notes from a score, or create a pattern on a keyboard, and then enter the notes one by one. Then select a rate and play the sequence.


Layering
Since Atomic is fairly low in CPU, you can try several instances of Atomic, all running at once for polyryhmic effects and composition. Since everything is BPM synced, you can synchronize several instances together for a very detailed sound. Modular Hosts and Atomic Using Modular hosts such as EnergyXT, Plogue Bidule, Chainer, the rack system in Tracktion, and others, it is possible to use the MIDI out function to control other softsynths.

In a modular host, you will see a MIDI out control coming from the icon of Atomic which you can connect to other VST's you have in the chain. It is also possible to use the LFO"s and step gate in Atomic to control other synths in this way as well. See the MIDI menu where you can select functions and MIDI channels to control other softsynths as well as hardware synths when using the MIDI OUT as output going from your computer to your hardware devices. You can also simply turn the main volume of Atomic down to hear what is happening with your hardware devices. This expands the use of Atomic as an actual sequencer controlling tool for hardware synths.

Source: AlgoMusic - Atomic v1.0 VSTi / Atomic Manual

 

Thanks for your reply @BEAT16 !
I tried XronoMorph two years ago and I didn't feel comfortable with it, but I also didn't take the time to learn it's complexity. I might give it another try! Thanks for reminding me.

However as far as I remember, it's a standalone sound generator but nothing that I could integrate into my DAWs plugins in a modular way, right?

 

Hello "thug life 69" maybe this is something for you:

Sarn Elen Euclidean Sequencer - Free Ableton Live Sequencer!

Info & Free Download
https://k-teck.co.uk/sarn-elen-scale-scanning-sequencer

 

Thanks again @BEAT16 !
Again not what I am looking for, but still a great M4L tool. I had some fun playing with it, thank you!

I guess for what I'm looking for the only way would be a M4L module that does something similar as the MIDI Transformer in Cubase. Taking information coming out of euclidean generators like M4L or reaktor, and transforming the information in a useful way. In this case note pitch and velocity, for example "D3, vel 90" and transform it to CC of choice and it's value, for example "CC74, 90". Because then I could tell my VST synth to read Cutoff from CC74, FM from CC75, etc. and letting the euclidean device operate these knobs.

The only other way I see right now would be building a Reaktor module, which will be super complicated.

 

Is there anything you are looking for or is it not technically feasible, so it remains a dream?
I am a big Fan from this one: AlgoMusic - Atomic v1.0 VSTi - 32 Bit www.kvraudio.com/product/atomic_by_algomusic

(I put the AlgoMusic - Atomic Manual PDF to read and Inform...)

Working with UVI Falcon : Euclidian Percussion

 

Last edited: May 26, 2021

So you're looking for a MIDI transformation tool, right? Have you tried this one (I've just taken a quick look) https://www.bluecataudio.com/Tutorials/Tutorial_RemoteControl_MIDICCMapping/?

 

Thanks again @BEAT16 and @No Avenger !
I don't think that it is a dream because you could do it very easy with a modular system.

I think I found a tool that could help me - I'll report back after I tried!

Also I'll have a look at the BlueCatAudio tool, as it looks like that could be it!

 

I just managed to get it work without any additional tools. I think I was just a bit stuck. It's actually very easy to do.

 

I Found something that may interest you


https://www.blinksonic.com/portfolio/fr3tz/

 

Late to this, looked at the screengrab of your device rack, I can see what you're doing but still don't get how you're translating the note information to CC numbers / Values.

 

I think this might be a bit closer to what you're looking for, but I don't think it totally does what you want with mapping velocity. I agree it's quite bad that Ableton doesn't have an option for this (I think FL Studio does)
https://jgarcia.hungry.jp/project/manual-cc-mapper/

 

pluggo could do that, m4l can only do something similar by weird detours.

your best bet is to simply include the vst hosting right in your m4l device and load it from there. controlling its parameters is now really easy and allows for everything you ever wished and more. note that some VSTs might be incompatible with that host.

and of course if you do not mind the low resolution of midi, for synths you can use midi controllers wherever the plug-in supports those.